Talk:Flaggers (movement)

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Military history: North America / United States / American Civil War C‑class

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This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
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	North American military history task force
	United States military history task force
	American Civil War task force

In favor of leaving the article (not just a transient neologism):

The Virginia Flaggers, an active organization created in 2011. (https://www.facebook.com/The-Virginia-Flaggers-378823865585630/ http://vaflaggers.blogspot.com/ Mentioned in https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/us/parades-lexington-virginia-martin-luther-king-jr-robert-e-lee.html

Tennessee Confederate Flaggers: http://tennesseeconfederateflaggers.blogspot.com

Alabama Flaggers: https://abc3340.com/archive/alabama-flaggers-stand-guard-to-protect-confederate-monuments

Delta Flaggers: https://patch.com/mississippi/jackson/mississippi-cop-fired-after-confronting-confederate-flag-wavers

New York Times: “pro-Confederate whites who came to be known as ‘flaggers’” https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/insider/in-a-post-charlottesville-nation-everything-feels-different-and-the-same.html

Atlanta Journal-Constitution: https://www.myajc.com/news/local/pro-confederate-flag-rally-underway-stone-mountain/t30X6J5kjWr0hcksG0MwVK/

Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/the-ku-klux-klan-wants-to-rally-in-charlottesville-now-this-college-town-is-on-edge-once-again/2017/06/06/ee5cba5c-4a4c-11e7-9669-250d0b15f83b_story.html?utm_term=.9ae93f3eae17

Florida Times Union: http://www.jacksonville.com/business/columnists/2015-07-08/story/tonyaa-weathersbee-battle-flag-represented-division

Southern Poverty Law Center: https://www.splcenter.org/news/2015/10/12/fifteen-confederate-flaggers-indicted-terroristic-threats-and-gang-activity-georgia

I think I’ve made my point, and am pulling the deletion template. deisenbe (talk) 12:18, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. wumbolo ^^^ 13:36, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Name of the page

I have changed the name back to its original one. A flagger (singular) is a traffic guard. The plural cannot have a completely different meaning. See Flagger (disambiguation). If you disagree, discuss it here. deisenbe (talk) 11:42, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 February 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page to Flaggers (movement) at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 02:16, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Flaggers (Confederate flag erectors) → Flagger (United States) – "(Confederate flag erectors)" is a terrible disambiguator for an article title. My move to Flaggers was reverted (though with a valid reason), so I propose "(United States)" for disambiguation. feminist (talk) 06:39, 2 February 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 09:57, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A flagger (traffic guard) can also be from the United States. I suggest Flagger (political activist). - Station1 (talk) 08:37, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- (United States) suggests a topic exclusive to the United States, but (political activist) works as well. feminist (talk) 09:58, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - If you make it political activist, then you're ruling out not only the Confederate flag, but that they are American. Then it will probably get a Globalize request. To my knowledge, and while I don't know everything I'm reasonably well informed, there is no such flagger movement in any other country, or in the U.S. for any other flag. The only things that comes close are the people who first claimed a land, like New Amsterdam or Rondonia, for a colonizing country (Netherlands and Portugal in these cases), or for putting up a Catalan or Valencian flag in Spain, or the Scottish flag in U.K. These are done by individuals; there is no flagger _movement_ in any other country. I can see only harm/confusion for making the name of this article politically general, and no benefit. Whatever the name is, it needs to link it to the Confederacy, or neo-Confederates. The name needs to give the topic of the article. deisenbe (talk) 11:23, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - Hence my proposed (United States) title. Regarding why a mention of Confederacy in the article is inappropriate, see WP:PRECISION. feminist (talk) 13:52, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - I don't understand "Regarding why a mention of Confederacy in the article is inappropriate". deisenbe (talk) 13:58, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        I am saying that a mention of the Confederacy in the article title, as you suggested, is inappropriate. feminist (talk) 13:06, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        
        Thank you. Would you please explain why you take this position? To my knowledge there is no other flagger movement in the United States. WP:Precision says "titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article". "Flaggers (United States)" would not do that, at least as I see it. deisenbe (talk) 18:33, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Flaggers (political movement). Flagger (United States) would imply that traffic guards are not found in the United States. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:45, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- It's quite a stretch to call it a political movement. It's guys erecting Confederate flags. They have no other political goal. deisenbe (talk) 16:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Flaggers (movement) then! -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:18, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Use "Flaggers (movement)" per above discussion. "Flaggers (United States)" has a serious logic problem, and WP:CONCISE makes "... (movement)" preferable to over-disambiguation with "... (political movement)". I agree with nom that the current title is awful and against our naming conventions; it is not a disambiguation but an attempt at shoehorning a definition (essentially a compressed article lead) into the title. We just don't do that. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 02:06, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - "erectors" in a title just seems wrong. Lovesaver (talk) 05:24, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting note: several alternative proposals have been mooted, so I am relisting to generate more solid consensus on which one should be used. I will summarise them below.

Flagger (United States) (feminist, supported by Lovesaver)

Flagger (political activist) (Station1)

Flaggers (political movement) (Necrothesp)

Flaggers (movement) (Necrothesp, supported by SMcCandlish)

If any users who have already commented, or those who haven't, want to weigh in, please indicate which proposal(s) you find acceptable. Many thanks, SITH (talk) 09:57, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am OK with Flaggers (movement), or for that matter, Flagger (movement). feminist (talk) 16:25, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think your proposal was on the right track as far as WP:PLURAL. I don't see a reason why this article title would be an exception to that guideline. But while Flaggers (movement) makes some sense as a plural, it doesn't make as much sense to say a Flagger is a movement. But I'm pretty much neutral re all the proposals so far or the current title. Another possibility is Confederate flagger. - Station1 (talk) 22:36, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.