Talk:Folia

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Clarity required

"The "later Folia" is a standard chord progression (i-V-i-VII / III-VII-[i or VI]-V / i-V-i-VII / III-VII-[i or VI7]-V[4-3sus]-i) "

Is confusing no matter how it is interpreted. If nominal bar divisions are intended to be notated by the dash - then there are incorrect number of bars written here for the standard 8 or 16 bar progression. The forward slashes are also ambiguous as various notation systems use them for differing purposes, what they are indicating here, along with the square brackets and within the context of the ambiguous bar lines, is unclear. posted by User R.Christie (has forgotten log-in passwords) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2404:4408:4746:C600:702E:1944:A698:3E0C (talk) 01:41, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ostinato

Has Folia been used as an ostinato? Hyacinth 10:43, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

19th century

I changed the part that said La Folia was not/almost not used in the 19th century. See the chronological overview at [1]; in summary:

 Century  Folias
 17th     31
 18th     61
 19th     28
 20th    126
 21st     17

With 28 compositions it's less than the 18th century, but too many to say it nearly disappeared. Of course, the list is not complete, one may suppose that the longer ago the more compositions have been lost. That would explain the enormous number for the 21st century (extrapolate that...). China Crisis 16:25, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

La Folia variations

The usually accepted translation of the word "folia" is madness. As a matter of fact I have been told that it should rather be leaf from the portughese "folha". The word "folia" does not exist in the (modern) portughese dictionary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.226.99.148 (talk) 07:10, 13 July 2006

Chord notation

Say, if the dm chord progression is right, then isn't it i-V-i-bVII-bIII-etc...? One or the other would appear to be wrong. 72.211.244.248 17:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)T. Gnaevus Faber[reply]

I have a somewhat similar question. In truth, the flats in the VII and III aren't necessary in the natural minor mode. My gripe: Chord progression as written in article: i-V-i-VII / III-V7-[i or VI]-V / i-V-i-VII / III-V7-[i or VI7]-IV[4-3sus]-i

What is in the dm chord progression and the embedded Folia and in the popular violin version by Corelli: i-V-i-VII / III-VII-i-V / i-V-i-VII / III-VII-i-somethingmyearsarenottrainedtohearyetbutIV[4-3sus]soundsaboutright-i

Mainly it is the V7 I call into question - it should instead be VII. Unless anyone has any objections about it, I will change it thusly. Adghar (talk) 18:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling

Anyone know why the Spanish spelling is given, rather than the Italian? Safebreaker (talk) 14:59, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, folks. On consulting Grove, I see it's Portuguese and it's usually spelt that way even in Italy... Safebreaker (talk) 15:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of spelling, the accent must fall on the I, not the first syllable. That's why I prefer the Spanish "folía" for clarity. If you're meaning one of the Italian versions, though, you have to use double L, as in "follia", as the other is not a word in Italian. Deliusfan (talk) 21:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Beethoven

While there is something resembling a Folia in the second movement of the Beethoven Symphony No. 5, it is highly doubtful that this was an intentional quote or reference. See [2] for further details.

Paul (User:Lpgeffen) (talk) 18:24, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The idea that the use of La Folia by Beethoven was accidental presumes that he did not know his music history and did not know of the long musical tradition. Being a master musician, I expect that Beethoven would have a strong curiosity about all aspects of music, and would have had plenty of people sharing things with him. Therefore, I would have found it surprising if he was not aware of at least this tradition, and its use by the musical masters of his youth.

I expect Beethoven to have been very knowledgeable, and to have know exactly what he was doing when he was writing the music. And given his sense of humor and "romantic irony", it is totally reasonable that he would have included something like this as an easter egg and/or passing hat tip to earlier traditions.

See the musical example: http://www.folias.nl/beethoven_symphonie5.mid which is obviously LaFolia

Here's the full score: http://www.folias.nl/nnbeeth2.gif

Ema Zee (talk) 18:06, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Popular culture

The theme was arranged and performed by Carole Koenig in the film The Addams Family (1991){{Citation needed|date=June 2010}}. The beginning of the chord progression appears several times in the 1941 film The Corsican Brothers{{Citation needed|date=June 2010}}. Vangelis used it for music composed for the film Conquest of Paradise{{Citation needed|date=June 2010}}.

I removed the above as uncited. Hyacinth (talk) 12:13, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Key signature in later-folia examples and first early-folia example: shouldn't it be two flats for G minor?

As of 2011 June 6, the two "later folia" examples (the first and last of the four total) and the first of the two "early Folia" examples (the second of the four total) are displayed with one flat in the key signature as if the passages were in D minor, but the notes are arranged with the tonic at G as they would be if the passages were in G minor. Because the MIDI files associated with the respective passages are likewise in G minor, I'm guessing that there's a typo in the key signature and that an E-flat should be added to it. (The second of the two "early Folia" examples [the third of the four total] is correct as written.)

The passages don't appear to have been written for a transposing instrument: If the piece were in concert G minor, the key signature's having one flat rather than two would indicate that the written passage is for an F instrument such as the French horn, but in that case the tonic would be at a written D, whereas the passage's actual tonic remains at a written G.

I suppose one can't rule out the possibility that the passages were written in a G-to-G Dorian, such that the scale in use would include an E-natural rather than an E-flat, but in that case the variant changing the seventh measure's i to a VI wouldn't work, or at least it wouldn't work nearly as well.

Would someone please either a) redo the graphics files to reflect a key signature of two flats or b) provide an explanation of why the key signatures have only one flat?

Thanks! – Antediluvian67 (talk) 16:29, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I also wonder why the later Folia is notated in G harmonic minor rather than melodic minor, when chords from the melodic mode are used through and through. Ostracon (talk) 19:56, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

G harmonic minor would have an E♭ and an F♯. Hyacinth (talk) 23:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The shift from "modal" to "tonal" music was incomplete in the 17th century, and key signatures were in their infancy. In the Folia, since the tone B flat recurs constantly, printed music generally used a B-flat key signature to save space. The tone E flat was sufficiently rare that it was written as an accidental rather than incorporated in the key signature. In practice, melodies for the Folia could use E natural (for a Dorian flavor), E flat (corresponding to the modern G minor), or a mixture of the two. 140.247.0.13 (talk) 00:39, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The images and the information in them are are cited. Hyacinth (talk) 23:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC) By which I mean perhaps the sources could be consulted. Hyacinth (talk) 10:19, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Has someone stocks of Savall recordings? 2 are relevant. The third one has nothing to do wityh Folías except for the title of the cd. There are far better cds dedicated to the Folía theme.See the musical cathedral for recommended recordings like the Lagana keyboard folías which are historically much more valid — Preceding unsigned comment added by Folias (talk • contribs) 20:49, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Swedish folk tunes

In traditional old Swedish songs, it seemt two tunes are extremely common: La Folia and Fiskeskärsmelodin. They do share some features, a long stretch of chords I believe, but obviously people don't consider them the same. Also, this is just for songs that you sing, not tunes for fiddle and other instruments. As the paragraph now stand I find it confusing and think it could be removed. --Stighammar (talk) 23:42, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

the "around half" of "old [s]wedish tunes" is both vague and unlikely. as for the rest of the passage (as it currently reads), it's preferable to keep and source/rewrite as necessary, imho. k kisses 15:50, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@K kisses I agree. As a classical guitarist who also enjoys Swedish folk songs, I have never detected a strong overlap. La Folia is a triple-meter minor key dance. There are many triple-meter minor key dances throughout Scandinavia and Europe. This claim is truly dubious. Sammyjava (talk) 12:39, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]