Talk:Fucus serratus

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Common names

I think all the Fucus pages: Fucus spiralis, Fucus vesiculosus and Fucus serratus should be given these titles, as appropriate and NOT Toothed Wrack, Serrated Wrack etc. Best to use the botanical rather than the common name as the title. All the other algae are....I think.Osborne 12:44, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The guideline WP:NC(CN) takes the opposite view, as do very many editors. WP:PLANTS currently mandates scientific names over common names, but doesn't cover algae (even if the ICBN does). You must remember that Wikipedia is written for the lay audience, many of whom wil have heard of bladder wrack, but have no idea what is meant by Fucus vesiculosus. --Stemonitis 14:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK I agree - but what are going to do with the thousands of small algae which do not have an English name? There are over 10,000 red algae! Probably only about a dozen algae have English names. I think the Botanical names must be used, the common names could be redirected.Osborne 10:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC) See Rhododendron has a botanical name - fortunately it is also known as the English name. I will look up the English names and see how many there are.Osborne 10:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Toothed wrack is also referred to as "Serrated Wrack", "Saw Wrack", "Notched Wrack" or (Scotland) "Black Wrack" in Major, A. 1977. The Book of Seaweed. Gordon & Cremonesi. ISBN 0 86033 046 X.Osborne 08:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anything without a common name automatically defaults to the scientific name, so that's no problem. This is true of very many taxa, not just algae, of course, including most of the ones I write about on Wikipedia, as it happens. The second point you raise, about alternative common names is much more interesting. WP:TOL recommends that where there is no "reasonably unique" common name, the scientific name should be used. This means that if "serrated wrack" and the others are used similarly often to "toothed wrack" (and there is no objective measure of similarly often for this purpose), then the article would go to its scientific name. Let's examine some Google results (excluding "Wikipedia" each time and only searching in English language sites): "Fucus serratus" — 41,800; "toothed wrack" — 1,410; "serrated wrack" — 13,800; "saw wrack" — 143; "notched wrack" — 3; "black wrack" — 103. I have to say, I find those results surprising, but I'm prepared to abide by them. It suggests that "saw wrack", "notched wrack" and "black wrack" are all uncommon enough not to warrant a mention in the article, and that the title should be Fucus serratus. I'll get onto that straight away. --Stemonitis 13:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have just written a long list of botanic names with their "appropriate" common name - but it for some reason was not saved! And I am not doing it again! Most algae are only known by their botanical name, but if you wish to use the common name for those which have a common name - well that's ok by me. I have written similar notes under the "discussion" of some other species (Fucus, Fucus serratus, Fucus spiralis, Fucus vesiculosus or Pelvetia canaliculata) I can't remember which and I will be going home soon, retired from my job for ever. So I leave it up to you, best wishes.Osborne 13:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your list is here — it ended up at the redirect while I was moving the page:

Ascophyllum nodosum Knotted wrack Chondrus crispus Irish Moss Codium as ''Codium'' Colpomenia peregrina as ''Colpomenia peregrina'' Dulse Dulse (redirected from Palmaria palmata Fucus as ''Fucus'' Fucus spiralis ''Fucus'' Fucus serratus as Toothpaste Fucus vesiculosus as Bladder wrack Gastroclomium Heterosigma akashiwo as ''Heterosigma akashiwo'' Laminaria as ''Laminaria'' Lemanea as ''Lemanea'' Macrocystis stellatus as ''Macrocystis'' Palmaria palmata as Dulse redirected from ''Palmaria palmata'' Pelvetia canaliculata as ''Pelvetia canaliculata'' Polysiphonia as ''Polysiphonia'' Porphyra as ''Porphyra'' Sargassum as ''Sargassum'' Schmitzia hiscockiana as ''Schmitzia'' Thorea as ''Thorea'' Ulva lactuca as ''Ulva lactuca'' The above list shows the botanical name and the name in which Wikipedia knows the name. Osborne 13:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC) Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law! Osborne 14:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC) But why did some of the "species" which should have been highlighted (like Pelvetia cananiculata) not show as such? - don' bother to reply, I will have gone for good, you just might need to know!!Osborne 14:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]