Talk:Glory Days (Little Mix album)/Archive 1

Archive 1

3rd single: WP:CITENEED?

@KGirlTrucker81: I'm not convinced that ref is RS. I went looking for alternatives, but came up empty-handed. Waddya think? ... richi (hello) 17:15, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I may post it to WP:RS/N to see if http://www.directlyrics.com is reliable or not. KGirlTrucker81 ^{huh? what I'm been doing} 17:28, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

R&B?

@KGirlTrucker81: I un-accepted that IP edit, because I couldn't V it from the new source given (Billboard). Neither is it mentioned in the Digitalspy source, AFAICS. Did I miss something? ... richi (hello) 18:38, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Nope, source didn't support that genre when I checked on the source. KGirlTrucker81 ^{huh? what I'm been doing} 18:46, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

@KGirlTrucker81, Musicedit98, and Formation1234: The new Allmusic ref suggests the genre is "60s-style R&B", hence my edit to add British 1960s R&B. Note that this genre doesn't mean R&B Contemporary R&B, which is a very different, newer style. If you read the two ledes, I hope you'll see the difference. If you disagree, let's discuss here, rather than start an edit war, eh? ... richi (hello) 18:13, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

NB, I just fixed a typo, which changed the meaning to what I actually meant (marked with strikethru). According to the WL'ed article, Contemporary R&B didn't emerge until the late 1970s, so if our source for "R&B" says 60s-style, that can't possibly be the right genre. ... richi (hello)

The source says: 60s style R&B. The 60s part is only describing the syle of the genre which is R&B. Just like saying 90s R&B or uptempo R&B. The genre is R&B, not British 1960s R&B, there is not a genre thats called "British 1960s R&B" either. --Formation1234 (talk) 20:15, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

@Formation1234: Yes, interesting point, but the edit you've re-made three times now isn't to R&B -- it's to R&B, which isn't the same thing. See what I mean? ... richi (hello) 20:23, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

So we appear to have returned to reverting without discussing. WP:BRD, please, good people. Wikipedia has articles for two distinct, "R&B" parent genres:

1. the traditional Rhythm and blues, most popular roughly 1940–1970, and
2. Contemporary R&B, which only started in the late 1970s.

AFAICS, the citation says "60s-style R&B" which would refer to Rhythm and blues (or possibly to British rhythm and blues, but that's a whole other discussion). What am I missing? ... richi (hello) 17:17, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

@Richi: you've just admitted it says "60s-style R&B" so why did you revert my edit when I closed it off from being rhythm and blues to R&B? Dorabandora (talk) 22:30, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Because R&B is a redirect to the wrong article. As it was, it was WP:NOTBROKEN; arguably, you've created an easter egg ... richi (hello) 22:37, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

I hate to be pedantic, but I've piped the link, as the article specifically says "R&B" and not "rhythm and blues", despite the former standing for the latter. Ss112 03:12, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the piping, but I know other editors aren't. Also beware that R&B is itself a redirect (albeit to the wrong genre) ... richi (hello) 18:34, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Release date for "Touch"

Right now I'm struggling to find the release date for "Touch". Are there any source where there is a release date for the single "Touch"? Because before page protection, anonymous IP users had added unsourced release date for the single which is maybe like December 11 or 12. Also on the main page of "Touch" where on the "singles chronology" said that it's somewhere around 2016, which is unknown. Is it really released somewhere in 2016 or will it be released somewhere on 2017? Please I need help knowing this information and I don't want to argue and edit war over about the release date. Thanks. Andrew (talk) 09:13, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

No reliable source has claimed its release. It has peaked on the UK Singles Chart, which would suggest it did come out, but nothing states as such. livelikemusic talk! 00:12, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

The bottom line is that I was so close to be violating the 3RR regardless of how many reverts I did about the unsourced release date that some various IPs made since last month. But what's confusing and questionable to me is that is it released somewhere around December 2016 after it was announced on the fourth of December or will it release someday around 2017 as the second single? Andrew (talk) 08:21, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

According to Official Charts, it first charted on 1 December 2016, which would suggest an early November release time frame. But, I do not believe, that we in fact have an official release date yet. I'd believe this year to be the release of the single. livelikemusic talk! 13:32, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

That doesn't suggest early November at all. It doesn't take 3-4 weeks to debut, and we can't assume it was early November. It charted then because that's when the albums released, so several songs charted on downloads sales alone. It then peaked following the X Factor performance due to mass exposure I reckon this was given an impact date, like Lovebird (song) was. Their previous single Secret Love Song didn't get given a standalone digital release either.  — Calvin999 15:30, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I know for a fact that November is not a single release date. Because according to the article, it says that "Touch" was released as a promotional single on the fifteenth of November, until on the fourth of December, it has been announced as the second single from the album; but there is no release date yet. Why did some IP users say that it's released on December 11 or 12 (which is unsourced)? Andrew (talk) 17:47, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, they said in December on Facebook that it's the second single, and is being promoted as such, but it doesn't have a released date, digitally or physically. That's why I think it's an impact date, which is different to a release date.  — Calvin999 17:55, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I even found it on Twitter too. But that can't be used because it's unreliable. Andrew (talk) 18:00, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Depends, because if it came from Little Mix's official page then it can be used. I know it's self published but it is verifiable in the sense that it was officially them that said it. Tricky I know.  — Calvin999 18:10, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

What I'm thinking is that should we change the year on the chronology of "Touch" on the main page of the single to 2017 or best to wait until the release date has been announced? Andrew (talk) 08:30, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

I don't think an actual digital release will happen, it didn't with Secret Love Song. I think the day they announced it on Facebook was it impact date.  — Calvin999 09:49, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Hey guys, sorry for the delay response, got so busy in a moment. Anyway I wanna ask, was "Secret Love Song" that was released on 3 February 2016, was that announced on social media or a different source rather than social media? Andrew (talk) 01:20, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) A digital release likely won't happen, unless they issue a remix extended play; their announcement on social media was likely the "impact date", and considered the song has peaked at number-four, that likely gives weight to that. livelikemusic talk! 01:22, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

The date on "Secret Love Song" is wrong; that's the music video release. Either 5 December 2015 (announcement) or 11 December 2016 (radio impact) should be used. A music video release does not equate a single release, etc. livelikemusic talk! 01:24, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

I know that music video release date doesn't mean that. But how did some anonymous IP users get that date that was December 11 or 12? Was it on social media (which is unreliable) or was it made up? Andrew (talk) 01:29, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

The 5 December 2015, date is cited within the article. It's actually the only cited release date in the article that I can see. livelikemusic talk! 01:32, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

You mean 2016? Andrew (talk) 01:35, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, thought we were still discussing "Secret Love Song". The date for "Touch" is probably the date of its peak on the charts, or its first chart date following the announcement? Only cited date that I am aware of is 4 December 2016. livelikemusic talk! 01:38, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

No, I'm sorry that I confused you because I've should've mention about what are we talking about and I've should change the topic at first about what is about. Yet again, I'm sorry. Andrew (talk) 01:47, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

The 11 December 2016, date comes from their performance on The X Factor, which again, is another invalid date. If we were to use any date, it should be the announcement date. livelikemusic talk! 01:50, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

I see. I guess that's why some IPs said that. I guess I understand. And I do agree what you said above. Andrew (talk) 02:49, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

A release date is always better than an impact date, so for Secret Love Song the radio release should 100% be used. However, for Touch, I think we will have to go with the date of announcement and label it as an impact date.  — Calvin999 12:42, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

You know, for "Secret Love Song", I agree with you both that radio release should be used. I was about to ask the same thing. Also speaking of that; someone had started a discussion at Talk:Secret Love Song about the release date nine months ago and I had responded there yesterday. So do you think it's best to take it over there? Andrew (talk) 18:15, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

The music video just premiered about 25 minutes ago, so if an impact date or any kind of official release date is coming, it'd suspect it'd be soon. livelikemusic talk! 00:26, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I hope so. I think that it will release somewhere like maybe couple of weeks maybe digitally or radio. And about "Secret Love Song", some people said that it was released on December 2015 and some said it was February 2016 which is music video release date. Why did they say that it was February 2016? Andrew (talk) 02:07, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Because of the video premiere date; the February date is the exact date of the video's premiere. But, again, music video ≠ release date and/or single release. livelikemusic talk! 02:15, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Then why didn't they use the radio release? Andrew (talk) 03:06, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

I haven't a clue; anonymous editors seem to do whatever they want from a fan point of view. livelikemusic talk! 03:11, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess they do. Andrew (talk) 03:14, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Just an update on main page of "Touch", anonymous IP users had continued to add unsourced release date, even ignoring the hidden note. Do you think we should request page protection for that? Pending a response on this, I won't request it until further notice. Thanks. Andrew (talk) 00:09, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Hey guys, I would like to offer a contribution to this discussion by giving a reliable source that is also used on Ed Sheeran's "Shape of You" article. It's from the BBC Radio page and it lists the songs that are being released to radio in that week. The date of its release was 6 January 2017 (the same date from Shape of You and Castle on the Hill), and here's the source. http://web.archive.org/web/20170108105850/http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/playlist I believe it's a reliable source. This kind of source has been used a lot in British music articles and it solves the question that everyone is making since the song was announced as a single. FanofPopMusic (talk) 17:40, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

@FanofPopMusic: Would all of the songs have been released to radio on the same day of the week? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 07:43, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

@Jc86035: Yes, I searched the previous weeks and the first time that the song appeared was on 6 January 2017 (the same date as Ed's songs) and the website is a reliable source, and it has been used in a lot of articles as a source, Ed is just a clear (and good) example. It is perfectly clear and it's been over a month that people are trying to find a date, and finally a reliable source was able to be found. I am looking forward to revamp the whole article and now we have 3 dates: 15 November 2016 (as a promotional single); 6 January 2017 (radio release); 03 March 2017 (remix). FanofPopMusic (talk) 16:05, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Sourcing from Twitter

@Livelikemusic: WP:TWITTER says that a self-published source can be cited as long as it is used to prove a claim about itself, and I assume their verified Twitter account is reasonably authentic. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 02:12, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Continuation of finding the release date of "Touch"

This topic was split off from #Release date for "Touch", above.

I guess that "Touch" as a second single was released somewhere between December 2016 and March 2017 since I see on the article that there's the song called "No More Sad Songs" will release as a third single on 3 March 2017, but still no source or any confirmation for release date since anonymous IP users has continued to add the unsourced release date for "Touch". Raritydash (talk) 08:30, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

It is crystal clear that the song was added to UK radio stations on 6 January 2017, as sourced here http://web.archive.org/web/20170108105850/http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/playlist, this source is also being used on Ed Sheeran's articles (and many other British music articles as well) and it's taken from a reliable source. As I claimed at the topic above, I searched the previous weeks, and the first time that the song was added to UK radio stations was on 6 January 2017, which is exactly few weeks after the X Factor performance (where the song was only performed and announced as a single) and weeks before the video was released (where the song was already on radio). I am looking forward to revamp the article with a lot of information and now we have 3 dates: 15 November 2016 (as a promotional single), 6 January 2017 (radio add as an official single) and 3 March 2017 (remix with Kid Ink). This is a reliable source, so I'm suggesting to close this thread that is open for over a month with this date which is the radio date so I can make a great article for the song. FanofPopMusic (talk) 16:12, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

The January 2017 does seem to be the most logical date to use, unless we go towards the December 2016 impact date... but, I am leaning towards the January one. But would love to hear more opinions on this, because, truthfully, the amount of unsourced bullshit being added is troublesome. livelikemusic talk! 16:45, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I would agree on January 6, 2017 release date. But according to Template:Infobox single, in the released parameter, it is said that the field should refer to the earliest known commercial release date. Meaning, the January 2017 release date is likely the official release date of Touch. The source that FanofPopMusic can be considered reliable, even the BBC Radio 1 is not listed on the WP:ALBUM/SOURCE, but BBMC Music does. SkyHigher (talk) 05:22, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

I would also agree on that date, if only to stop the ad nauseam watchlist flooding from inexperienced users. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 16:19, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

I guess that that I might be agreeing using that date as far as I know that the radio release can mean a single. Raritydash (talk) 05:50, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

At this point, it's the only reasonable action we can take. To have a release date for the next singe, already, is quite unfortunate. livelikemusic talk! 15:19, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

@FanofPopMusic: Touch appears on many of the previous archives of that page as well, starting 9 December (although the page was not archived every day). Does the A/B/C-list sectioning have any importance here? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 05:15, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry to interrupt, but the fact that I'm getting a little impatient because anonymous users has continued to put down some random date on "Touch" which could be the announcement date, promotional release date or something else. What date should we use? And again, I agree that we use the January release which is radio release. Raritydash (talk) 23:17, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

I, too, conquer about the January 2017. That should finally end the endless bullshit. livelikemusic talk! 23:52, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

The problem with using January 6 is that the song appears in the previous archives of the BBC page as early as December. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 01:35, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

@Livelikemusic: Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 01:49, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

OK, seriously. This is getting out of hand. That source provided is mentioning about the song chart. Not that single release. And that 18 December thing is a live performance. Raritydash (talk) 04:19, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

@Raritydash: We may as well just use the music video or the promotional single release, since the song doesn't seem to have actually been released otherwise (lack of sources indicates it was probably released to radio as a promotional single). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 04:40, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

But they both don't mean single release. Raritydash (talk) 05:52, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

@Raritydash: I'm not sure about this. Template:Infobox single says to use the earliest known release date. I realize neither of them is technically a "single release" (and we don't know if the song actually had one), but a standalone release doesn't really seem to have much significance nowadays. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 05:59, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Just an update, someone had added the release date of "Touch" which is 9 December 2016 with a source on that single's page. Is that reliable and is it OK to use it? Raritydash (talk) 23:53, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

@Raritydash: That was me. It seems to be the most likely because it's the earliest date for which it appears in the BBC Radio 1 archives; we may as well use it. Twitter search (it's probably the best/only thing available for this, really) indicates some from the week before, mostly on internet(?) radio stations and Apple Music, but I don't think those count because it was always available to stream. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 07:40, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2017

Add Power as the fourth single from Glory Days JacobxD2514 (talk) 23:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Please provide a reliable source to back this statement up. Raritydash (talk) 18:00, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

References

Livelikemusic, why did you remove the sources in these edits (aside from the iTunes cite, which probably wasn't necessary)? Jc86035 (talk) 02:12, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

They were made by a sock-hopping IP/user, and therefore, their edits are not acceptable, whether right or wrong. In addition, Allmusic cannot be used as a genre citation. livelikemusic talk! 02:17, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

@Livelikemusic: I have regardless restored the two useful genre citations. Jc86035 (talk) 03:03, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Rerelease

@Livelikemusic: Should a new article be made for the re-release like with Teenage Dream: The Complete Confection? Jc86035 (talk) 03:36, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

@Adamclemance13: stop edit warring; you're literally about to be indefinitely blocked. Jc86035 (talk) 15:17, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

At this time, I'm prone to say no, only because I'm questioning if it's capable of acting as a stand alone article, especially since there's no official single being serviced from the re-issue at the present time, etc. Including the track listing and mentioning the re-issue within this article, for the time being, is acceptable. livelikemusic talk! 23:09, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

I think the other example of what "Jc86035" said above could be like Reclassified, Talk Dirty (album), Good Girl Gone Bad: Reloaded, In This Skin: Collector's Edition and Tears on the Dancefloor: Crying at the Disco. But still I'm not sure if I do agree about the platinum edition of this album is ready to have it's own article or not. Are there any examples of the albums that has the re-release or the platinum edition re-release but does not have it's own article? Raritydash (talk) 00:14, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

There are quite a lot of those (at least 10,000), although the rereleases with their own articles (1 2 3) seem to be ones with new songs and not just additional mixes of tracks. Jc86035 (talk) 03:07, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

'Tropical house'

I've looked through the article and can't find any citations for 'tropical house'. Despite being in Category:Tropical house albums, the album doesn't seem very characteristic of the style. 10Trix.Never (talk) 21:22, 26 June 2022 (UTC)