Talk:Goram and Vincent

I'm at a loss to know what I could have done to improve on a B-rating and would welcome advice. The article is fully researched and sourced, and literate. There is no further research worth doing, so far as I can tell. There are unfillable gaps in the account of the legend (e.g. its age), and speculation is justified.

Younsmere 15:37, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

B is the highest rating that is not a Good Article. Have a read of the Good Article criteria, and if you think the article meets them you can submit it as a good article candidate. Gasheadsteve 16:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rag Morris would have been the first to perform Marc's play, up by Blaise Castle [the castle itself] - I was the herald. Am trying to track down a reference to when - I reckon before 1998. 84.71.142.210 (talk) 21:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've corrected the play authorship and first performance information, in line with names and dates on the script and original performance poster [it was during a Rag Morris weekend of dance]. However, I don't have those in front of me so currently reference the e-mails received from others within Rag Morris. Would these be suitable references? I also tidied up the other references in the article - hope that was OK.137.222.244.48 (talk) 19:57, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Now added local newspaper references from before and after the first performance.137.222.244.1 (talk) 10:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Origins of the Goram and Vincent story[edit]

The origins of the story are described in the "transmission of the legend" section as having originated in William Camden's Britannia (1586) and Robert Atkyns's History of Gloucestershire. The problem is that both of these texts are available online as searchable documents and there is no description of the Goram and Vincent legend in either.

See here for Britannia: https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/camden/william/britannia-gibson-1722/complete.html

See here for History of Gloucestershire: https://books.google.co.uk/books?redir_esc=y&id=VJdJAAAAMAAJ&q=goram#v=onepage&q=goram&f=false

It is quite possible that this is a hoax, and that the Goram and Vincent story is a much more recent creation. The Wikipedia article cites Thomas Chatterton, the famous 18th century hoaxer, as another source, but it's not clear from the reference where he wrote about it either. As far as I can tell, the story is no older than the 20th century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Le poulet noir (talk • contribs) 14:58, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've checked Atykns' first edition (1712), and the story is under Clifton (the page number and title given in the article seem to have been for a later edition; the edition you linked to was the wrong volume: Clifton is listed as section 316, and vol 1 only goes up to section 190); I've added this version to the article. Will now check for Britannia (not made easier by Camden publishing several editions in Latin, often with quite significant revisions, and then only helping produce a translation in English later: so several editions to read through, and difficult to know what form of these names he will use). Just searching for 'Goram Vincent' on Google Books (without any quotation marks), and specifying any time before 1800 will show that there have been many references to this story before then. --Yodin^T 10:42, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For Camden I've checked the English 1610 edition, and he does describe St Vincent's Rock,^[1] but doesn't seem to mention any legends associated with it. As a result, I've removed the mention of Camden, unless/until someone can find a ref that shows at least one edition did cover the story itself. Will now try to trace the Chatterton poem. --Yodin^T 11:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Camden, William (1610). "Somersetshire". Britain, or A Chorographicall Description of the Most Flourishing Kingdomes, England, Scotland, and Ireland. Translated by Holland, Philemon. London: Georgii Bishop and Ioannis Norton. p. 239.

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[1] Camden, William (1610). "Somersetshire". Britain, or A Chorographicall Description of the Most Flourishing Kingdomes, England, Scotland, and Ireland. Translated by Holland, Philemon. London: Georgii Bishop and Ioannis Norton. p. 239.

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