Talk:Ground rule double

In 1927 batted balls that bounced into the grandstand counted as home runs instead of ground-rule doubles, as they do today.

The rule change was made for the 1930 AL and 1931 NL seasons. See here for Dec. 12, 1930 rule change:

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/chronology/1930DECEMBER.stm

I think the average fan would benefit from have the pages merged. Using, "Ground Rule Double" for "automatic double" may be popular with select commentators and casual fans, but it nevertheless incorrect. Strictly speaking. Having the pages together would help those fans understand the difference.

All of the foregoing were by Domoni and the first item by a "numbered person". The following is by me, the originator of the article. As the merge tag was removed from the other article in the discussion without any apparent objection, and I agree with the premise, I'll take if off of this article myself. ;Bear 18:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While I agreed with whoever first proposed a merge -- in my mind a move for simplicity -- I see the point regarding the ground rule double mentioned on the ground rules entry. I think it is enough they reference each other. Ebear422, thanks for removing the notice and pointing us to the other talk page. I need to remember to also watch all talk pages. domoni 23:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Terminology

I understand that there is a difference between awarding two bases due to ground rules and awarding two bases due to the MLB rulebook, but the terms "automatic double" and "book rule double" have no clear etymology. The MLB rulebook uses terms like "entitled to two bases" where sportswriters use "automatic double." Of the three terms in question, only "ground rule double" appears in the MLB rulebook. I removed and collapsed the distinctions between the terms. White 720 (talk) 23:51, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As something of a baseball numbskull, I turned to this article to try to understand what happened in the part of the 7th inning of last night's game 5 of the 2013 World Series that I missed on TV last night. I now understand a ground rule double (which I appreciate), but I have no idea what an automatic double would be. A specific example of an automatic double which is NOT a "ground rule double" would be really helpful for novices like me. Thanks Natkuhn (talk) 15:56, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Runner scoring from first on "ground rule double"

I have seen three times while watching MLB baseball an umpire award a runner home plate (three bases) on a ground rule double because as the umpire determined he would have scored if the ball did not go out of bounds, and every time the defensive team's manager has argued the decision. I've also heard on a few occasions an announcer or commentator mention that he thought an umpire should have made the decision to allow a runner to score, and that it's within the rules. I'd like to see someone clear this up on this page because the language of the page implies that it is not supposed to happen according to the rules (and I could not find it specifically state that an umpire is supposed to do that in the rules, myself.) The only thing I can think of is that the ump would still consider it two bases to award the runner home because he had already reached second when the ball went out of bounds. Anyone able to make an edit that clears all this up? 24.230.137.165 (talk) 04:06, 13 July 2011 (UTC) Matt S.[reply]

I Was just doing some more digging and here's a baseball writer mentioning that an umpire can do that http://riveraveblues.com/2011/01/evaluating-rob-thomson-41169/ and here is a link to a box score where you can see that Lyle Overbay hits a ground rule double and THREE runs score, just in case there's any doubters that this does happen: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=270409114 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.230.137.165 (talk) 04:22, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

However, the above referenced box-score also records that the Kansas City manager was ejected in the bottom of the second inning for arguing a fan interference call. (Game was in Toronto. Overbay played for the Blue Jays, and his RBIs were in the bottom of the second. It's not clear that a ground rule double even occurred, despite the entry in the box score. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NitPicker769 (talk • contribs) 04:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And only 7 days after posting above comment: 2012/07/8 Blue Jays playing White Sox in Chicago. Top of 6th inning, Rasmus on first. Bautista hits a fair ground ball down third base line. Ball bounces along, is touched(?) by on-field staff and grabbed by front-row fan. Bautista placed on second, and Rasmus awarded home on umpire's judgement. And the box score on the MLB web-site still uses the term "ground rule double"! Oh, and US Cellular Field has no ground rules that apply in this situation...NitPicker769 (talk) 03:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And again 2013-06-22, Yankees at home to Tampa Bay, Wells pinch-hitting in bottom of 7th with bases loaded. Wells hits a fly ball into deep center field. Ball drops, bounces up toward wall, is touched by spectator reaching into field of play and drops back onto the ground. Umpires stop play. They judge that the ball would not have entered stands if left untouched by spectator, that all three on-base players score, and Wells is placed on second. The MLB web-site describe it as a "ground-rule double (fan interference)".NitPicker769 (talk) 15:26, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The scope of this page

The claim that doubles awarded for bounding balls over the fence are not ground rule doubles is an annoyingly common misconception; in a sense, it's a reverse misconception, because it's in the form that the correct term is the one in error. Up until yesterday's edit by Randy Kryn, this page solely focused on "a double awarded by ground rules", which is unlikely to be a notable concept, whereas "a double awarded for a bounding ball over the fence" is much more likely to be notable but was claimed to be an incorrect usage of the term. Accordingly, I am planning to rewrite large portions of the page to include ground rule doubles for bounding balls, but it doesn't feel right to massively redo a decade of work without some form of discussion. O.N.R. ^(talk) 04:32, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Correcting the page would violate WP:GROUNDRULETROUBLE, so use WP:IAG (ignore all groundrules). Randy Kryn (talk) 10:26, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]