Talk:Group R

Hi guys, what happened with the new categories RC1, RC2, RC3... what's this? I don`t understand it. Can you help me? --Jorjum (talk) 00:56, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RC1 to RC5 are 'sporting classes' designed to have the many groups and classes of cars into equivalent competitiveness. They were introduced about 2014 when Group A, R, N, S2000, etc were all popular. There's not much information to cite for the article and so I have removed WRC from the Group R summary table so as not to convince people the WRC is a group R car. --PushingPace (talk) 14:03, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge suggestion with Groups Rally

Disagree.

Rally1 has no connection with Group R at all. Rally3 is too weak link for the average person.
Many of the Group R cars have no connection to the Groups Rally.
It's also been discussed to merge Rally Pyramid into Groups Rally which will give it the modern context. Group R deserves its own article IMO as the generation preceding Groups Rally.

Rally Wonk (talk) 18:11, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Groups Rally itself doesn't make sense, considering the references used in citations.. For me "Group R" is not defunct, his classes have simply changed name (R5->Rally2 and so on..); "Rally1" started in 2021 when hybrid technology was still not in place. For me Group R an Groups Rally (why this name??, in the FIA Appendix J is called "Groups R") are the same thing in different moments.. MOST of the Group R cars DO HAVE connection to the "Groups Rally", rather. Lou6977 (talk) 18:08, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Groups Rally came from the FIA, it may have been in WMSC or rally department newsletters at the time, but I'll agree it's not common and can't find it as written. If you look in 2021 Appendix J 260, you can see each of the groups is called a "group rally".

In Article 251, "Groups R* ... *Rally5/Rally4/Rally3/Rally2 as from 2020" and "Group Rally1", it's clear that they are individual groups, each at the same level as Groups N, A, F, GT3 etc (and the old R). Put together Groups R... and mentions of "group rally" you can see Groups Rally is reasonable at least.

Group R was not argued as defunct, because R3T is still active (see WRC regs), but technically is and will definitely be soon. R3T isn't under Group R or Groups R in Article 251. Compare Article 260D in 2009, you will find "Group R" in the text, but with the latest 260D, you will not find reference to Group R, R3T is just it's own extension of Group A/N. Maybe that's not proof of anything just different words for the same thing, but you won't homologate one, because you can't, because they are old. The last homologation expires after next season, so along with R4, NR4, R3D, R3C, R1A and R1B and maybe even R4-Kit (why I say most), they won't have relevance to the modern groups.

Rally1: In 2021 it was the World Rally Car, media were asked by FIA to push it as being at Rally1 level of competition (the pyramid) but even WRCar is still not in Group R. As for the 2022- Rally1 car, which the articles are about and FIA say was introduced 2022, it's not a production car and as such belongs to a different category to the rest and all of Group R. .

Rally3 was not a renamed member of Group R and never belonged to it. It's a brand new spec of 4wd car in its own Group. Nobody searching for it should be expected to go to an article called Group R.

So question is, what to do, and what kind of merge do you propose (what target page with which content)?

Rename Groups Rally to Groups R and keep Group R: Will just confuse everybody and its not a common name at all
Just delete Groups Rally: Fine by me as each Group has its own page
Delete Groups Rally and the Groups articles and add the groups to Group R: No, see above.
Keep as is: Fine by me as it is handy for linking to the collective when describing the new/renamed groups as used in international rallying, infoboxes and navboxes especially. Not convinced it needs to be used as a common name for that to exist.
Merge: I can't agree. I'm not convinced that merging makes sense just because some of the old specs formed the basis of the new ones because there was no need to ostracise popular cars and the entrants. This is covered in the articles anyway.

Rally Wonk (talk) 00:20, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Another suggestion, looking at WRC/regional sporting regs and technical/specific regs of the cars; there's no evidence R5, R4, R4-Kit, or R-GT even belong to Group R - just R1, R2 and R3, so this article could even shrink. As of the latest sporting regs, R3, the old R2 and R1 are still referred to as being in Group R, but not Rallys1-5. Maybe just a category or a navbox for rally cars would suffice as a collective home. Rally Wonk (talk) 22:46, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Could not find any single RS to prove Group R has any sort of connection with Groups Rally and therefore they are two independent topics. Unnamelessness (talk) 02:27, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]