Talk:Hurricane Debbie (1961)

Hurricane Debbie (1961) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 9, 2013.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 9, 2013	Good article nominee	Listed
March 6, 2013	Featured article candidate	Promoted
November 5, 2015	Featured topic candidate	Promoted
February 22, 2023	Featured topic removal candidate	Demoted
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on January 21, 2013. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Hurricane Debbie* in September 1961 produced record-breaking winds across parts of Ireland, gusting up to 114 mph (183 km/h) off the coast of Arranmore?*
Current status: Featured article

Weather: Tropical / Atlantic Mid‑importance

	Weather portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Weather, which collaborates on weather and related subjects on Wikipedia. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details. Articles Requested Project Resources Become a Member Project Talk Assessment A-Class Alerts WeatherWikipedia:WikiProject WeatherTemplate:WikiProject WeatherWeather articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Tropical cyclones portal This article is supported by WikiProject Tropical cyclones (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by the Atlantic hurricane work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

European TC landfall[edit]

I have a major issue with calling it the only TC to hit Ireland. Is there any source that actually backs that up? The preliminary report (ref 2) clearly says it was no longer tropical on the 15th. I realize HURDAT is what that claim is based off of, but such a claim shouldn't be said without some other proof. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, here's a good report. That was found in this interesting forum discussion basically debunking that Debbie was tropical. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:12, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge?[edit]

Alright, I've thought this one out, so I hope there aren't any knee-jerk reactions to this. So, the primary reason this has an article, AFIFK, is because it hit Europe as a tropical cyclone (per HURDAT). However, as per above and as per the MWR (as well as logic), it most likely didn't hit Ireland as a hurricane. By having an article, we're highlighting something that may not have happened. We agreed not to use HURDAT as a primary source, and yet this article is a great example of doing just that. Seeing as there isn't terribly much info, I propose a merger. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:59, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Go for it. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 19:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirected/merged. HurricaneFan 25 — 21:27, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Links[edit]

Just keeping some links her to work with later. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 13:58, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
Templates Criteria Instructions

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hurricane Debbie (1961)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hurricanehink (talk · contribs) 03:14, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Given the uncertainty, I think the first sentence needs to be changed.
- Changed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"operational forecasters" - what are they? Do you mean, "operationally, forecasters"?
- Done Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
" Category 3 hurricane" - since this is the first mention in the lede, do you think you should add SSHS somewhere?
- Added Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"with many smaller buildings being destroyed" - no need for "being"
- Removed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
" $40–50 million" - which currency?
- Added Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"By this time, the system had a central pressure below 1006 mbar (hPa; 29.71 inHg) and sustained winds of 40 mph (65 km/h) were reported in Dakar, Senegal. " - needs a comma somewhere
- Added it before and Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"the Cape Verde Islands" - "the" and "Islands" are redundant
- Fixed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Continuing on a west-northwestward path" - the "-ward" seems unnecessary
- Removed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You mention "deepen" a few times without explaining what it means. It could be helpful.
- Discussed off-wiki Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"According to a 2012 study by Hickey and Connolly-Johnston, this ranked Debbie as the most intense post-hurricane since 1960 to move through the British Isles." - given that Debbie was in 1961, you should reword the sentence a bit. It could imply Debbie was the most intense in a 2 year span. I'd recommend removing "2012" from the first half of the sentence, and then say "...post-hurricane from 1960 to 2012..." Your call though.
- Reworded it. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
" ten-minute sustained wind " - maybe link to maximum sustained wind here?
- Linked Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Malin Head" - link?
- It's linked in the table. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"as the storm passed by" - don't end a sentence with a preposition.
- Removed it Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Approximately two percent of the trees in the forestry industry in Ireland were destroyed" - were trees really destroyed? Like an explosion? (or implosion???? o.O)
- Hahaha, yes! All destroyed! But on a serious note, I corrected it. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Four people were killed in County Cavan, a widow, her two daughters and granddaughter, after a tree fell on their car." - I think a dash is in order for the widow part.
- Added Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Countless trees were downed across the city, paralyzing traffic" - sounds a bit sensationalistic
- Would you suggest another way to word this? Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the third Ireland paragraph - "Most residents lost power for at least several hours and some lost telephone service." - you mentioned downed power lines and loss of communications in the previous paragraph. Is this anything new/different?
- Removed since it's redundant Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Numerous smaller structures, such as barns and outhouses" - this seems a bit redundant to when you mention the two barns being destroyed near Ballygar.
- Removed since it's redundant Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"the Saturday, September 16, 1961" - is "the" needed?
- Nope, removed it Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Damage in Roscommon was "impossible to calculate,"" - where is that quote from?
- Reference #21, as it's cited Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"In Limrick, 15 people sustained various degrees of injury" - is that supposed to be "Limerick", and why not say "15 people were injured"?
- Yes and reworded. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"thousands of trees were snapped or uprooted, leaving many towns temporarily isolated." - how did trees leave towns isolated?
- Clarified Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You should clarify early on in the Ireland section that it deals with the country.
- Changed section title Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Any more effects in Great Britain?
- Not that I could find sadly. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

All in all, it's a good article, but there is a bit too much repetitiveness in the Ireland section. It got a little boring seeing how many times a county reported damage to roofs, trees, or power lines. Try cutting down on that a bit. Lemme know if you have any questions. I'll put the GAN on hold for now. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:14, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've dealt with everything brought up. Thanks a lot for the thorough review! I really appreciate it! Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The opening sentence - "Hurricane Debbie was the most powerful cyclone on record to strike Ireland in September. " - seems odd to me. Have other, stronger cyclones struck Ireland in other months of the year? Or should it be "Hurricane Debbie was the most powerful cyclone on record to strike Ireland, in September 1961. "? 86.46.251.178 (talk) 15:22, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dollar/sterling conversion[edit]

Those dollar/sterling conversions look wrong - according to this website the pound in 1961 was worth 2.8 times the dollar, so £1.5 million would be closer to $4.5 million rather than £525,000, unless there is something else I've missed. Did they get converted the wrong way?--Jackyd101 (talk) 13:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's very possible I converted them the wrong way. Feel free to correct it. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 13:55, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cape Verde Plane Crash[edit]

Article mentions Sep 6 Cape Verde Plane Crash causing 60 deaths. I can see no reference to this either on the Wiki aviation pages, on aviation-safety.net or on a quick google search. Did it happen? - Rye1967 (talk) 12:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What is a minimal Hurricane?[edit]

Does a minimal hurricane have a definition?

I'm not sure of the official definition (if there is one), but a minimal hurricane is a low-end Category 1 on the Saffir-Simpson scale. Usually it refers to a hurricane with sustained winds of 75 mph (120 km/h)--12george1 (talk) 02:11, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]