Talk:Iranian Army

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"Iranian Army" refers to the Islamic Republic of Iran Army, not only its ground forces and it is the WP:COMMONNAME. Almost all English sources use "Iranian Army" to refer to Artesh: [1] [2] [3]. Pahlevun (talk) 20:08, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:Buckshot06. Do you have a source that "Iranian Army" is a common name for the ground forces? I have provided contradicting reliable sources. Pahlevun (talk) 22:35, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Buckshot06: Would you please answer me? Pahlevun (talk) 05:40, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies. Things have been busy. The issue at it's core is the definition, meaning, of WP:COMMONNAME. I talk of reliable sources in English, hardcopy works, for example, John Keegan's "World Armies" of the 1980s, or "Fighting Armies of the Middle East" by Gabriel. These refer to the Iranian Army. Army in common English means land forces, not entire armed forces. The Artesh in common English would refer to the Iranian Armed Forces. That's what you will find in the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, for example 'a force equipped to fight on land; an organised body of soldiers.. the entire body of land forces of a country'.(SOED, Sixth Ed, Vol 1, 2007, p120). There are earlier meanings, more Middle English, which talk about 'an armed force by land or sea.. a host.' For up to date specialised works, try any of Cordesman's CSIS volumes (random reference, try [4], page 132).

Your first link you actually cite above clearly talks about an army in the sense of land forces, Middle East Journal, so roughly the same category as Cordesman; your second link would be read by the average English speaker as talking about praising the army as land forces (without reference to the Navy and Air Force) and your third link could be interpreted the same: Army's conventional forces, not nuclear forces, and their air defence units..

Now, that's not your experience, not the sources you mostly deal with. I understand that. But that's because, I would argue, that you're not reading most of what the average English speaker would be reading about the Iranian Army. You're reading things coming from the Middle East, which are aware of the peculiarities.

My position stands, in terms of common English usage on English Wikipedia. WP:UE and WP:COMMONNAME would come down without a doubt as using 'Iranian Army' as Iran's land forces, not entire armed forces (Army of the Guardians included or not). Buckshot06 (talk) 06:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Buckshot06: No problem. I get your point on meaning of the word army in English, but here we are talking about a specific case. How come it should not be like People's Liberation Army of China (Redirected from Chinese army) Korean People's Army of North Korea (Redirected from North Korean army)? Pahlevun (talk) 09:03, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because both the Chinese and (less, the North Korean armed forces) are commonly known in English under those titles. As I have demonstrated by citing the reliable sources, the Iranian Army is not. Find me, please, for example, a regional city newspaper in the United States or Canada (say a newspaper in Toronto) that uses the term "Iranian Army" to refer to the entire armed forces. That's the kind of thing COMMONNAME refers to. Buckshot06 (talk) 09:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]