Talk:Jasmine Revolution

Jasmine jamile

merge

{{Merge to|2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests|date=March 2011}}

This article needs to merged into the 2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests article. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 22:07, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

• Redirect In most countries, such as China, the protests that have been called "Jasmine revolution" by some observers or pundits, are not revolutions. In those cases, such as Egypt or Libya, where revolutions are taking place, nobody is calling the events "Jasmine revolutions". Other events, such as those in Yemen, are neither revolutions, nor have they been associated with Jasmine by anybody. Thus, the title of the article itself is highly questionable to begin with, and much of the content would need to be removed, as it is unrelated to the topic of the article. The content that would remain is actually duplicating the content of 2010–2011 Tunisian revolution.  Cs32en Talk to me  06:27, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Redirect I agree to your opinion. For those counties other than Tunisia, only the dissidents and some observerscalled the protest taking place in China the "Jasmine revolution". However, those protests are actually some minor ones, not to mention the distinction of a revolution. And most of information provided in this article is highly similar to those in 2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests, therefore, redirecting this article to 2010–2011 Tunisian revolution would be good idea.Wo.luren (talk) 16:13, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

• Strong Redirect - Some of the comments above show that a lot of commenters have barely read the article. This article is about the Tunisian Revolution, not the Chinese Jasmine Revolution. There's no point creating a duplicate of a revolution already with an article, just because it's name is shared by what some media/online dissidents are calling a completely failed "revolution".

If the article needs to be merged it better merged with 2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests instead of 2010–2011 Tunisian revolution and the new article be named 'Jasmine revolution' or something signifying its international nature.--Maheshkumaryadav (talk) 14:16, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Thats fine. We can merge the article into different articles -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 22:47, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

• Merge with 2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests. What's happening in China is largely unrelated to the other events. Dbpjmuf (talk) 05:16, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

If the two events were unrelated, the Chinese government would not block searches for "jasmine". While the background issues are different, I assert that the inspiration that the Chinese protesters derived from Tunisian events is enough to legitimise this article. Jesus geek (talk) 20:04, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

The term "Jasmine Revolution" has been coined in Tunisia and if used elsewhere, it is only because of the rippling effects of the Tunisian Revolution on other uprisings in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). I know for a fact that nobody has ever called the Iranian uprising that started after the June 2009 disputed election, Jasmine Revolution. The same is true for other uprisings across the region and beyond. I suggest that we merge this into the Tunisian Revolution page. (H.Mansourian)

Jasmine Revolution is Ben Ali coup d'Etat

The name Jasmine Revolution was firts used by tunisian to describe the Ben Ali coup d'Etat. The usage of this term in Occidental medias is then a really wrong statement. Tunisian call themselves this revolution the Revolution for dignity. Search on seeks for this term and you will find a lot of results. 82.225.234.108 (talk) 14:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Keep and expand

It is my opinion that it is too early to do away with this page, as we have not seen all of the potential repercussions from the Tunisian Revolution. If no new countries are affected and the situation in China does not progress, then yes, delete this article. However, if the revolts continue to expand outside MENA, the 2010-2011 Middle East and North Africa protests page will not suffice to encapsulate the phenomenon. Jesus geek (talk) 20:00, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Missing?

The biggest articles should be Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, and Sudan. Some of these (like Egypt) aren't even listed! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.138.129.142 (talk) 22:26, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

The whole article is flawed and likely heading for deletion for failing to meet the stand alone article criteria. Active Banana [[User talk:Active

Banana|(^bananaphone]] 22:28, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Missing

Iraq is being affected too. --Arthur Borges 09:48, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

This page should purely define a Jasmine Revolution with links to relevnt pages within the profile of the countries that have been though such revolutions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.10.102.252 (talk) 16:41, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

China

Tiananmen Square is to Beijing what the Champs Elysees and Times Square are to Paris and New York: Stand there, make a spectacle of yourself and you'll attract a smaller crowd of silent onlookers within a few minutes before a police officer comes along and tells you to keep moving. To call that a Jasmine Revolution is journalism worthy of Jayson Blair. --Arthur Borges 09:48, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

US Economy Affected

This article is so easy to 'decode', you can see the motive some Users desperately creating the news to relate China with the unrest in African countries. The world today knows that the economy of the US is largely affected by China, perhaps an American Economy Crisis is very near, sending out smart assholes creating mess in China is what this article about. 113.210.5.8 (talk) 02:11, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Wiki Policy Issue

I feel Wiki should not compete with the daily media: is this an online tabloid or an encyclopedia? If the latter, then Wiki should only record political events after the fact or found a "WikiTimes" with "Breaking News".

--Arthur Borges 09:48, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

disambiguation proposal

Most of the keep arguments on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jasmine Revolution seem to be based on the need to have an article describing protest movements or attempted protest movements around the world that have been inspired by the Tunisian and Egyptian revolutions of 2011. At the time this article was created and the AfD's, there was no consensus on creating an article for this purpose. Now, we have an article for this purpose that seems to be accepted without any AfD: Tunisia Effect outside Middle East and North Africa.

So it seems to me that this page, given the actual contents and the AfD keep arguments, should become a redirect to Tunisia Effect outside Middle East and North Africa.

However, for a redirect, what is important is the name, not the contents and AfD keep arguments. The title "Jasmine Revolution" only really seems to be the Western media's name for the Tunisian revolution, and the Chinese attempted protest movement's own name for its attempted protest movement. i don't see any obvious references in the present version of this article that claim that any of the inspired protests in other countries, except for the PRC, give their protests the name "Jasmine revolution".

So this would seem to lead to a forked redirect, to both Tunisian Revolution and 2011 Chinese protests. Since a forked redirect doesn't exist, that would imply a disambiguation page, something like:

(disambig tag ... Jasmine Revolution may mean...)

• the rise to the presidency of Tunisia by Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in 1987 (a reference is needed in the Ben Ali article in that section)
• the Tunisian Revolution in which Ben Ali was forced out of the presidency by popular protests
• the 2011 attempted protest movement in the People's Republic of China that was inspired by the 2011 Tunisian revolution.

The only two practical possibilties i see are:

1. a redirect to Tunisian Revolution; or
2. a disambiguation page with content something like what i've put just above.

My preference is for this to become a disambig page. This would allow for the addition of further 2011 revolutions if any happen and are known as Jasmine revolutions, and would help overcome the information that seems to have gone mostly unnoticed about Ben Ali's coup d'etat being called a Jasmine revolution.

Since this would not be a delete, it would still be possible to look back in the history to find useful information that needs to be merged into one of the related articles.

Is there any support or oppose-ition to this proposal (especially from people participating in the AfD discussion)?Boud (talk) 00:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

In terms of media/popular choice of a "generic" name for the Tunisia Effect outside Middle East and North Africa protests/protest attempts/revolutions, my guess is that "Facebook revolutions" is getting more popular than "Jasmine revolutions". We don't yet know what the long term dominating term will be (if there will be one), but it seems to me unjustified to say that most of them are considered "Jasmine revolutions". That's why a disambig would be easier to handle as a RS'd link to the main pages on the theme. Boud (talk) 10:47, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I support this proposition. However, since many people in the world will look for the term "Jasmine" not only in regard to Tunisia and China, but also for Bahrein, Egypt etc., I would suggest to at least on the bottom of the disambiguation page add a link like "2011 protests in other countries" and redirect that also to Tunisia Effect outside Middle East and North Africa, just to make sure everybody finds easily what he/she is looking for. Zhangjiandong (talk) 13:47, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Good point. An explanation about this should be more than just "at the bottom", it should be placed in a way that is reasonably obvious to someone casually reading the page. Boud (talk) 10:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree, this should be a disambiguation page. —Nightstallion 12:53, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

New rough draft of proposed disambig page content:

(disambig tag ... Jasmine Revolution may mean...)

• the rise to the presidency of Tunisia by Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in 1987 (a reference is needed in the Ben Ali article in that section)
• the Tunisian Revolution in which Ben Ali was forced out of the presidency by popular protests, called "the Jasmine Revolution" by many media organisations
• the 2011 attempted protest movement in the People's Republic of China that was inspired by the 2011 Tunisian revolution and called a "Jasmine revolution" by some of the organisers
• anti-government protests around the world in 2011 that were to some degree inspired by the Tunisian and Egyptian 2011 revolutions and are called "Jasmine" by analogy

Content in italics means that this is a description of what to write, not the actual content. Boud (talk) 12:04, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I Agree with them all except the last one, there is no link to use the wording Jasmine and what it has to do here for some of the countires in that article. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 05:23, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

i found this reference: "While the Jasmine Revolution sweeping West Asia and parts of North Africa..." that uses Jasmine Revolution in a generic sense, but the use does not seem to be widespread. It mostly seems to be used to describe the 2011 Tunisian Revolution. If generic use becomes significant enough to be worth adding to the "Impact ..." article, then IMHO it will be justified to add it here as a disambiguation.

Sidhartha (2011-02-24). "Bullish on silver, advice is buy more". Times of India. Archived from the original on 2011-03-14. Retrieved 2011-03-14. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

In any case, i've put the disambig content in place, since in 8 days there have been no objections and this is unlikely to be controversial. The presence or absence of a link to the "Impact..." article can become a new section on this talk page - or on the Impact... talk page, since AFAIK references should not go on disambig pages, they should go in the articles. Sceptics should go to the articles, not rely on the disambig pages.

For the record and/or for salvaging useful content: the version prior to disambig is here: [1].

Boud (talk) 23:02, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Good call. NW (Talk) 18:42, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup and/or redirect?

I came to this article today, and I was confused by the redundancy of the first two bullet points. Looking at this talk page and the edit history, it looks like the first point was intended to be about the rise of Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, and the second about the revolution that overthrew him. However, in Ben Ali's article, his rise to the presidency is not called the Jasmine Revolution anywhere. If there are no objections, I will just delete the first bullet point.

My other idea is that "Jasmine Revolution" should redirect to the Tunisian Revolution page, since that seems to be the original and most prevalent use (I could be wrong on this). Then at the top of the Tunisian Revolution page, we could just have a note saying something like "Jasmine Revolution redirects here. For other uses, see Jasmine Revolution (disambiguation)", and then put the contents that are currently here at "Jasmine Revolution (disambiguation)". Mario777Zelda (talk) 13:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

The expression Jasmine Revolution has been used to refer to incidents in at least 10 different countries across Asia and the Middle East over the past decade. This page should be updated to reflect that.