Talk:Junction (traffic)

Merging with Intersection (road)

I disagree. This article is meant to discuss junctions for all means of traffic - not just road junctions. It is meant to be a translation of the German article de:Knotenpunkt (Verkehr)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ae-a (talk • contribs) 01:20, September 17, 2005.

Are you from England by chance? In my mind, (and I'm from the U.S.) the word traffic implies road traffic more than, say, rail traffic. My concern is that this article may duplicate information already in the encyclopedia. I suggest you check out Junction and take a look at some of the articles there, that's where I found Intersection (road). Perhaps there would be a better article for some of this information to merge to. I understand that the article is a translation, but that's not as significant as much as the issue of how to incorporate that information into the English Wikipedia. Also, please go ahead and sign your posts to Talk pages, you can do so by typing four tildes, like so: ~~~~, after your comment. Ëvilphoenix ^Burn! 13:59, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am from England. Here, the term "Traffic" is also frequently used to refer to rail-traffic, river-traffic, air-traffic, bicycle traffic and even pedestrian traffic. One thing that this article could contribute to the Wikipedia is to discuss how towns developed at junctions (road junctions, river junctions, etc). There is already a paragraph there about this, and it could be expanded further. Ae-a 02:35, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, I wondered if maybe traffic had a wider connotation over there. I still think the main issue is to make sure that information is not duplicated and is as simple to find as possible. Ëvilphoenix ^Burn! 02:05, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

disagree. Pretty much differentiated topics, larger articles. Intersection is a special case of junction, whatever language you speak and whatever traffic you use. mikka (t) 00:08, 14 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
keep seperate. Hopefully it grows. Ever heard of server/internet traffic? :-) traffic to this article... Tobias Conradi (Talk) 18:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There has not been much activity here for some time and the consensus seems to be keep, so I removed {{mergedisputed|Intersection (road)}} Ae-a 13:25, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal revived

This article is still pretty lame. The previous discussion on merging hoped it would grow, but is has not. Before the articles were split, they were a delightful bit to read. −Woodstone 16:22, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Frankly, the old interchange article was a mess in terms of structure. An interchange is inherently different from an intersection due to the presence of a grade separation and ramps. A basic intersection might cost only $100,000 (the cost of paving the intersecting roads and adding a stop sign, limit lines, and perhaps a few other safety signs), while a full-fledged interchange costs anywhere from $20 million to $1 billion (e.g., the Macarthur Maze reconfiguration in Oakland after the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake), depending upon the size and number of roads to be connected.

I supported the split, and I prefer to keep interchange and intersection separate. Pardon my bluntness, but this merge proposal is one of the dumbest I have ever seen on Wikipedia. I am also posting this response to the intersection and interchange talk pages.--Coolcaesar 04:52, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Interchange (road) and Intersection (road) pages should remain separate in my opinion. There is plenty scope for addition to both and they complement one another nicely. Junction (traffic) is the problem - it's not much of an article and I'm lost as to what it could possibly provide that isn't covered in the Interchange and Intersection articles. All it can really do is point to them both... right now it's a mish-mash of nonsense. Erath 23:16, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And now of course, I've defied myself by making just such an attempt. Thoughts please on the new Junction (traffic) article. I'm also considering moving it to Junction (transport) to alleviate the confustion over exactly what constitutes "traffic". Erath 00:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with the merge. An Intersection and interchange are two completely different types of road junction. An Interchange involves grade separation, whereas an intersection is an at-grade crossing where traffic streams cross.

Also, keeping the articles separate will maintain consistency with the equivalent articles in other-language Wikipedias that are linked to by the interwiki-links. In fact, one of the reasons I did the split and created this article in the first place was so that each article could act as a magnet for interwiki links to other language wikipedias. When interchange and intersection used to be a single article, I noticed that some of the articles in other language Wikipedias were about just interchanges, and some were about just intersections.

I have added an {{attention}} template to "Intersection (road)" to draw attention to the article in the hope that it will be expanded. As for this article, I created it as a means to explain the concept of traffic junctions in general, and not just talk about junctions for specific transportation modalities. An example is the bit about the impact of junctions of the development of towns. I have restored and improved this section. One of the resons why the original article was not much of an article was because it was translated from it's German equivalent. I have not restored all of the material that Erath deleted, but instead, added a {{translation}} template in the hope that somebody else could do a better translation of the remaining material than my own efforts. Ae-a 15:51, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I dislike this idea that I deleted the information - I made an attempt at rewriting the article which covered the points worth keeping in the original. Personally, I think large parts of what has been restored is erroneous. I've never heard the words "transportation modality". Transport hubs are places where one can switch between methods of transport, but I would never consider one a type of junction. We now have the discussion about junctions being a forming point for towns mentioned twice - if you wished this expanded, you could have done so in the framework of what was there. The motorway junction disuccion also also now duplicated. The article also doesn't need to be a direct translation of its German counterpart. Despite all this though, I won't revert to my version though without a second opinion. Erath 02:13, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've recently expanded the Intersection (road) article. H Padleckas 00:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Attempt at resolution

Okay, I've tried to fix this once and for all, after the recent sabbatical.

Ae-a: "I created it as a means to explain the concept of traffic junctions in general, and not just talk about junctions for specific transportation modalities"

Both Junction (road) and Junction (rail) have now been split from this article. It is now devoted to the concept of traffic junctions in general and hopefully will expand in just that context.

I've also removed the translation notice (there should be more than enough information from English contributors in this subject) and the disputed merge notice (on which there has been no activity for four weeks).
Erath 14:34, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've recently expanded the Intersection (road) article. H Padleckas 00:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]