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Talk:Kangal

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Regarding Kangal

[edit]

@Semsûrî Can you elaborate how the Kurdish minority in Kangal can be represented as if they are half of the population when Kangal is governed by BBP and the Kurdish party doesn't even get any votes? Do you have any sources? Abcdefg9583 (talk) 11:01, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If the current reference states that Turks are majority you can change it but otherwise you need to find a reliable reference for that. Semsûrî (talk) 11:09, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If someone that did not know anything about Kangal was to read it, it pretty much reads like half of the population is Kurdish and the other half is Turkish. That is misleading. Not even Malatya has that much of a Kurdish population. MHP/IYI gets way more votes than HDP in Malatya. The border district to Kangal in Malatya is Kuluncak and it is a stronghold of MHP. The current citation is also about the Turkmen alewis in Kangal. Abcdefg9583 (talk) 11:33, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Until you find a reliable reference for your changes, you shouldn't reword the info. Semsûrî (talk) 13:50, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Turkey does not hold ethnicity census, one of the most reliable ways to judge the demographics is to look at the elections and votes but I will add a citation with an ethnic map of Turkey. Abcdefg9583 (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If it is a reliable map published by a scholar you can use it, but not if its a amateur one. Semsûrî (talk) 14:53, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Are you from Turkey? You can clearly see where Kangal is in the map. There isn't a single source (reliable) about Kangal that is about it's demographics. If we were to talk about citation, tere also isn't a citation that indicates Kurds exist in Kangal, let alone make up a considerabe part of the population. Abcdefg9583 (talk) 15:33, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is obviously an awful map that does not take into consideration that some areas are mixed. We have a reference that in details explains that some neighborhoods are populated by Kurds while others by Turks. Removing the latter for the former is obviously problematic here. Also Kangal needs to be mentioned explicitly in the map before it can be used. Semsûrî (talk) 15:37, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alright I checked the part where the Kurds are mentioned in the citation, here's a translation from Google:
Kangal District has 109 villages. 50 from the villages of the district Sunni-Hanafi, three units of Sunni-Shafi, 49 units of Alevi and 7 units of Sunni-Alawi it is mixed (Ünalan, 19997: 241-246; Gökbel, 2010: 16). 32 of Sunni villages It is a Turkmen village. Turkish culture, tradition, customs and traditions are dominant. Other Sunni Caucasian immigrant Circassian, Chechen, Karapapak (Azeri, Karslı), Uzbek etc. refugees live. All the people living here are considered themselves Turks. status. Turkmen Alevis live in 30 villages. Alevi Zazas in 5 villages lives. Alevi Kurds live in 13 villages.
As far as we observed, Alevi villages have more migration than Sunni villages. has given. And even when we visited many Alevi villages, there were only 3 or 4 people in the village. It was observed that the family remained.
18 villages out of 109 can be considered as Kurds and they all seem to be from the Alevi villages. This is clearly a small minority. My bad for not reading the source more carefully but this just confirms my point further. Abcdefg9583 (talk) 15:50, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This article is about the town only which is explained in the source on page 57. Semsûrî (talk) 15:52, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We can add the numbers up, for example Kurds only form the majority in Karşıyaka, population: 1703
Turks form the majority in Sularbaşı, population: 1573
Turks form the majority in Hürriyet, population: 578
Turks form the majority in Yenimahalle, göze and zafer, population: 1759
Places where Turks are the majority: 3910
Places where Kurds are the majority: 1703
Turks have more than twice the population of Kurds, though this is not exactly a small minority, they only make up around 30% of the district centers population, no need to mention they all migrated to Kangal from Malatya. One more thing to add is that most of the population of Kangal is out of the district center according to the source (Kangal center population: 12382, rest of Kangal population: 24933)
Numbers are taken from here: https://www.nufusu.com/kangal-sivas-mahalleleri-nufusu Abcdefg9583 (talk) 16:36, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are entering original research territory by determining who's the majority when that info is not sourced (see OR). Semsûrî (talk) 16:42, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but I think both you and I know that Turks are the majority and Kurds are the minority in Kangal district center. Everything from the voting habits and the source suggest that. I don't know what more can be presented to list Kurds as a minority. It is not easy to find demographic studies in Turkey. Listing Kurds as a minority in the district center and a small minority in all of Kangal is not wrong at all. Moreover, I don't know if it was intentional but the reason I edited the demographics section was because the Kurds were mentioned before the Turks as if the Turkish population could be neglected. Abcdefg9583 (talk) 17:25, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Its in alphabetical order but you can switch them around if you want to. And you can try to find other texts about Kangal; maybe there's more info about the demographics. Semsûrî (talk) 17:32, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sure thing, I spent some time looking if I could find anything more detailed but it was in vain. I don't think we will have a study/research paper like that anytime soon. Abcdefg9583 (talk) 17:35, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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