Talk:Kansas/Archive 1

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indians

"For millenia, the land that is presently Kansas was inhabited by Native Americans." Is this accurate? I thought that the Indians that were displaced by the white settlers had only been in the area a few hundred years. Weren't they displaced tribes from the Eastern part of the country? Maybe this should be "centuries" instead of "millenia". Jayscore 18:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

indians from the east often displaced the indigenous tribes of the territories to which they were displaced, if the eastern tribe was stronger (or smallpox cleared the way first.) When white settlers arrived, they often found the decedents of eastern Native American tribes--sometimes with no real memory of who the "original" tribes were. At any rate, there is extensive evidence of ancient Native American activity in Kansas. For example, Clovis points have been found in several locations around the state[1], and small-scale mound builder activity has also been documented[2], to name a few. --Carboncopy 19:20, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Should the text be expanded in this section? Just a thought. —Mike 02:34, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

More information about Kansas tribes is included in the article History of Kansas, though they probably deserve at least another sentence here. -- Carboncopy 03:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Latitude, Longitude

1) What is the source for official State boundaries? 2) Currently Kansas and Colorado seem to overlap in Wikipedia. Maybe the Colorado number is rounded.

curious reader

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.67.146.9 (talk) 18:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

Into paragraph: settlers from Massachusetts

To the anonymous user, please note that settlers from Mass. were not the very first to settle Kansas, and that they were not all abolitionists. They were Free-Staters, which is a more nuanced position. Also, to say that they sought to avoid the spread of slavery from neighboring Missouri sort of misstates the issue that arose from the Kansas-Nebraska Act. Kgwo1972 15:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

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What does "width" mean vs. "length"? either way, isn't kansas more wide than ... long? or tall? or whatever the other axis might be called?

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Full size flag of Kansas seems to be missing. I could not find a Flag of Kansas article, and the full detail link under the flag links to Flag of Missouri.

Didup 17:15 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

drop English measurements in state table?

I've recently changed Template:US state to make the table more compact. Including the English measurements in addition to metric makes the table entries look awkward in the current version of the template. Missouri is the only other state article that includes English measurements. Anyone care if I delete the English measurements? An alterative might be to create a different version of the template that accommodates both English and metric (which I'd be willing to do if anyone strongly cares about preserving the English measurements). -- Rick Block 15:47, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Because Americans don't normally use metric measurements, the English measurements should always be included, if not the default measurement. —Mike 05:29, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

I too believe that the English measurements should remain. The World would be better if everyone switched to metric. The fact of the matter is that they have not and English measurements still dominate the United States. As such, we ought to include the measurement system that is common to the locality. --Richss 14:06, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

Surely there were settlers before 1850. Can anyone clarify this? well u must know and figure it out yourself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Broworker122 (talk • contribs) 02:23, August 22, 2007 (UTC).

People From Kansas...

Just wondering what the denizens of Kansas are called... As in, Utahns are from Utah, etc.

Kansans. :) Cookiecaper 22:44, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Jayhawkers as well - me

Why do famous people from states like Kansas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Arkansas, leave and dont come back, Bill and Hillary Clinton are from Arkansas, after they got to the White house they are in New York, I wonder why...:)

Well, Hillary Clinton is a senator from New York, so she kind of has to live there and in Washington... As for other "famous" people like the Hollywood movie stars... well, they go to where they make... y'know... movies. And we don't have too many movie studios in Kansas.--Paul McDonald 18:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I like to call myself a Kanzanian, but I can't seem to get anyone else to go for it. Kansan is what I have heard the most, though that is pretty easy to confuse with the Native American tribe. Jayhawker works, too, though it's more specifically either an anti-slavery irregular from the Civil War era or a student or alum of the University of Kansas. And, no, we don't answer to "hick," "flatlander," "backward-state-dwelling anti-evolutionist," or anything else like that. Oh, and, by the way, the real reason that people from states like Kansas, Mississippi, etc. leave and don't come back is because, once they've gone to New York or Los Angeles, we don't want them back. Kansas; our state motto: "Yes, we've heard that joke before, too." --Raulpascal 18:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Hightest point in infobox

Since the highest point in Kansas has its own Wikipedia page (Mount Sunflower), should a link to Mount Sunflower be given in the infobox? N0YKG 20:30, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I have been reading the discussion thread about Kansas and would like to make a couple comments regarding its status as a "Midwestern" state. I was born and raised in Kansas and now live in Dallas, TX. My wife is originally from Michigan and lived a number of years in Chicago. I have a number of cousins that are from places in the southwestern portion of Kansas (Liberal & Dodge City). My point to this autobiography is that people in Liberal, Dodge City, Michigan, Dallas, and often times Chicago do not view Kansas as the Midwest. To not distinguish it as Missouri is ("It is a state with both Midwestern and Southern cultural influences, reflecting its history as a border state between the two regions") as culturally different from almost the entire Midwest is highly missing the point. Kansas has many Southern cultural aspects such as Jazz, Foods such as Bar-B-Que and Biscuits & Gravy, Political Conservativism, a Bible-Belt consciousness (no gambling), love of sports such as NASCAR, even the large oil & natural gas industry that no other "Midwestern" state claims, you name it Kansas has a bit of it. I am not trying to say that it is not in anyway a "Midwestern" state but I think that is too narrow of a term to use considering its vast influence from Southern culture and industries that make it a border state. --Posted by an anon.

Liberal and Dodge City have been western and mid-western. I think you are confusing KCMo with KCK (+ Kansas) in ... The NASCAR, maybe the few true "Kansas" items you listed, in KCK is rather recent ... J. D. Redding 23:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it definitely has influences of both regions. The midwest is noted for its grain production, farms, constant conservatism, etc. I have also seen a lot of the south. Dialect-wise, as well, Kansas is mostly midwestern, but has a large southern dialect representation. I'm almost tempted to copy and paste the description you say Missouri has. Wrad 18:53, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

That's interesting that you think Kansas and Missouri are very much alike. Don't tell the residents that, they'd likely argue!--Paul McDonald 20:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I just took out the midwest part of the intro. The Midwest article shows that this designation varies by source. We should, however, mention this debate further down in the article, I think. Wrad 20:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Paul, I was a resident for nearly 26 years and grew up in the City of Shawnee 15 miles from Missouri. Many of my friends lived in MO and attended KS private high schools and visa-versa. I have never heard anyone that would not draw some comparisons between the two states. They share a football team, baseball team, and allow in-state tuition for both MU and KU to residents along the border. If you visit the Lake of the Ozarks in MO they actually have a Kansas side to the lake. Wrad if you look up the definition of South Central United States it actually lists KS in that category. I believe there are similarities between the two states but my point was not to compare them to one another, rather to illustrate my point that like MO which is a border state, Kansas also has a Southern cultural influence. As far as dialect I goes, trust me I have been teased by my wifes friends that have heard me say y'all (without the drawl obviously) and things like huntin', fishin', runnin', etc. that I never noticed before I met her. Now I notice it in my friends back home and though it is slight there is a distiniction between Kansas and most of the Midwest in dialect.38.114.50.26 20:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)Michael

Wrad, rather than saying, "Sometimes called the Heartland", you may want to put something like, " an area often referred to as the Heartland". Just a suggestion.

I made a change, I think it's better now. Kansas is definitely like the south in a lot of ways. Sometimes I look around and wonder if I'm talking in the same drawl as everyone around me, but when I go to other parts of the US, nobody says anything about it. Wrad 22:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Kansas is definitely like the south in a lot of ways? How? Missouri (and Missourians) may be like the south in a lot of ways, but not the Kansans I know. J. D. Redding 23:23, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Apparently someone changed it and added Midwest back. I really think we should at least qualify that. People from Michigan and Ohio don't think of Kansas as the Midwest, just as we Kansans don't think of them as the midwest. The page on the Midwest also shows that defining Kansas as a midwestern state is not totally agreed upon, but varies by source. I'm a Kansan, and I think of myself as a midwesterner, but if we don't qualify it, some Hoosier or Buckeye may edit it out. I think we should deal with that now. Wrad 18:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I've always heard Kansas referred to as the mid-west (and the "heartland"). Not sure if there is anything to dispute. I have lived in KCK and Emporia, Kansas. Most of the people I know in Kansas think of themselves as being in the mid-west. J. D. Redding 23:23, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

That's what we're trying to say. People in Kansas think of themselves as in the midwest, but people outside don't always do so. Just take a look at the midwest article and its sources. Wrad 23:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Midwest as shown by U.S. Census Bureau official map from regdiv.pdf

Let me go back to this again, a lot of people in Kansas don't see themselves as in the midwest as well. Yes, there are a number of people in Kansas that do see themselves as in the midwest. You are making your assumption that living in KCK the upper most northeast portion of Kansas you represent those that live in Baxter Springs, Liberal, Dodge, Kanorado, etc... Like Wrad said, look at the definition of Midwest and South Central United States and you will notice we are questionable in the Midwest and clearly a part of the South Central United States. Why is the term midwestern so important to have there it's not like you calling it the South instead. I find it much more of interesting place to be from because it doesn't fit soundly in any one category, why not embrace that fact? At least if you are going to put that there make sure you add that there are many things that distinguish Kansas a part from the Midwestern states, culturally, economically (i.e. oil, natural gas, etc.) as well as in dialect. If you spent some time in Emporia then you would have certainly heard people from places like Baxter Springs and Pittsburgh that certainly have a different dialect than KCK. If you look into the economic growth of Hutchinson and Wichita you will see it established itself in the natural gas and oil markets, give me another midwestern state that can claim that. With those industries large numbers of people from Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana have moved into the area over the last couple of generations.70.250.176.54 03:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)michael

I would proposition that those in the extreme SW and SE (eg Baxter Springs, Liberal, Dodge) of the state may identify with the south or southwest ... but the majority of ppl in the state of KS and ppl in the US gov would call it a western to midwestern state. The ppl of Kanorado would, IMO, identify with colorado, a more western state. J. D. Redding 15:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Whats wrong with saying, Kansas is a state located in the Central United States that shares both Midwestern and Southern cultural influences which makes it truly unique. Or something like that. Interesting as well that Kansa means, "people of the South Wind".70.250.176.54 03:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)michael

The U.S. Census Bureau official map states that it's Midwest. It'd be alright to mention later in the article the things that distinguish Kansas from other Midwestern states, but also include things that are alike too. I have never really considered Kansas part of the South Central United States. Maybe western ... definitely midwestern. J. D. Redding 15:13, 10 May 2007 (UTC) (ps., KS has always been the border state ... oh, sweet bleeding Kansas ...)

That sounds all right. Just as long as we explain it. I was just thinking the same thing about Bleeding Kansas. Wrad 15:18, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Kansas is not a Southern state in any sense of the term. I hate to harp back to the slavery issue, but Kansas was established as a Free State. Look at the Political history of Kansas. Kansas was a solid Republican state, as was MA, PN, CT, etc. Kansas never voted with the solid south. I would dispute that Kansas is as "conservative" as everyone on here has been claiming. Republicans that dominate Kansas are by and large moderate (save for Brownback). Look at Dole, Kassebaum, Graves, etc. I've lived in Kansas since I was 5 years old, and I have never heard anyone refer to the state as anything but Midwestern. Burroughsks88 03:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I doubt that it's as clear-cut as you say, but certainly most of this discussion has been speculation. None of it will be added without a source. Wrad 03:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll also add, how many states with "southern cultural influences" have a mural of John Brown in their state capitol? Burroughsks88 03:36, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Learned today that Kansas has the 1st John Brown memorial statue in the country in Quindaro [sp?] in KCK. Went to the Argentine Carnegie Library .... and found that out ... J. D. Redding 01:46, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Seriously, I never in this entire discussion thread argued that Kansas is a "southern state". I agree that Kansas is a Midwestern state for the most part and would never call it a "southern state". There is a large difference between stating Kansas is unique with some southern influences and arguing that it is a southern state. You are arguing a position that nobody ever made a counter claim to. Your right don't go back to the slavery issue because it was a free state however it also moved to ban blacks from immigrating to the state all together. Don't white wash history to make it looker prettier than it really was. Many whites didn't want to compete with slaves for jobs as they moved down wages and the plantations moved up land prices. As far as saying you don't think it's as conservative as people say, I don't know who you are talking about. The Kansas I grew up in sold no booze on Sundays, had the third highest church going rate in the country, is classified as being in the Bible Belt, put a gay marriage ban in it's state constitution, wanted Darwinism banned, brought executions back, and voted almost 5 to 1 for George Bush. Sure its thankfully not Mississippi conservative I but it sure as heck isn't Nebraska, Illinois, Iowa, or Minnesota either. The only point I was making is that Kansas is more than just a Midwestern state but one culturally influenced by its geographical position.38.114.50.26 19:54, 16 May 2007 (UTC)Michael

You could always try the neutral phrase "Kansas is a great plains state...", because the great plains area includes some states in the south (like Oklahoma), and some midwest states (like Nebraska). Ks0stm (talk) 20:42, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

odd paragraph deleted

"As it is the central state in the Union, it is difficult to classify Kansas within one of the standard geographical regions of the nation, but it is generally included in the Midwest. The southwestern part of the state is sometimes included in the Southwest, since the area once was part of Spain, Mexico, and the Republic of Texas, while the rest of Kansas was not."

The style used is wrong for the topic; it's in British English ["as" used instead of "because"], which shouldn't be used for an article about an American state. Plus I'm not aware of anyone in the US ever disputing Kansas being considered part of the Midwest or refering to any portion of the state as Southwestern. Jon 20:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Overland Park/Olathe

In the Important Cities and Towns section, OP and Olathe are listed as suburbs rather than in the > 100,000 category. While it's true that they are suburban areas, it's also true that they exceed 100,000 population -- and Overland Park is actually larger than the city it's listed as being a suburb of, and has been since the mid-90s! I'd suggest that at the very least Overland Park, if not also Olathe, be moved up to the 100,000 section. JFMorse 18:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Given a choice, I would rather do away with the whole greater than thing and instead have them grouped in some other way. For example, group by metro area and then sort within each grouping by population (and display the most recent estimated population). —Mike 02:32, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

That's not going to change much, though; all of the suburbs are KC Metro, and all of the other cities are their metro area, essentially. If you're talking about just folding the whole mess into one list, with the populations noted, and the KC Metro Area cities grouped, then I think that would indeed be a good idea. If nobody raises an objection soon, I can take a crack at that. JFMorse 14:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I would also question any of these being suburbs of Kansas City, Kansas. Having lived in the area for 20 years, I can tell you that people consider these towns to be suburbs of Kansas City, Missouri. Or maybe a better term would be the Kansas City Metropolitan Area. Jayscore 18:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree Jayscore. I certainly wouldn't consider OP, Olathe, Lenexa, etc. to be suburbs of Kansas City, KS. I've spoken with three friends that grew up in KC, KS and they feel that if they are to be listed as suburbs it should be under Kansas City, Missouri. Perkins5622 03:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Olathe, OP, and Lenexa are all in Kansas. It would be idiotic to list them in a state that they do not exist in. I grew up in Olathe, KANSAS, not Missouri. I think the only reason that they are considered suburbs of KCKS is because you really cannot tell where one ends and another beings while driving through them. It is pretty much just one long, continuous sea of people. I would tell people that Olathe is a suburb of Kansas City because it is only a 30 minute drive from the outskirts of Olathe to downtown KC. Besides, Olathe, OP, Lenexa, etc. all have that suburban feel to them anyway, that it would be difficult for someone to say that they were not intentionally planned to be suburbs. (Kansans hate to be confused with Missourians, by the by.) Tragicomic 04:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in Overland Park, and I hate people claiming OP is a suburb of KCKS more than the idea that it's a suburb of KCMO. OP is bigger than KCKS, which was the point of my original suggestion here. JFMorse 21:38, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Obviously Kansas City (Kansas and Missouri) is really the suburb of Overland Park...they just don't know it yet. ;) —Mike 22:55, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... this seems to me to be a "state line war" of some type. Maybe this should be put under "bleeding Kansas" ... nah. But seriously, I think that the idea of "suburbs" in Kansas really does not apply. For example Schaumburg, Illinois is a very large city but is considered one of many, many suburbs of Chicago. The "suburbs" of the KC Metro Area are much, much fewer in number. Does that matter? I think so. Let's discuss!--Paul McDonald 18:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Overland Park, Shawnee, Mission, Kansas City, KS, Merriam, Olathe, etc. should all considered to be suburbs of Kansas City, MO. The same trend can be found in most, if not all, major cities in the United States. jwadeo 02:23, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Some of these are satellite cities. Some are suburbs. J. D. Redding

Paul, this was never about whether Overland Park is a suburb of KCMO. It was about whether Overland Park is a suburb of KCKS, which I feel it can't very well be considered anymore, what with Overland Park having more area and more people than KCKS... JFMorse 15:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

See, I tend to the opinion that Overland Park, KCK, KCMO, Shawnee, etc. are all suburbs of my home town of Mission. I'm willing to accept that this is a minority opinion, of course. --Raulpascal 18:53, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... Mapquest puts Olathe at 22 miles from KCMO. That's only 20 miles more (albiet double) the distance between Baltimre, MD and Washington, DC. Yet I wouldn't consider Washington and Baltimore to be suburbs of each other. Another example is San Francisco and Oakland, which mapquest puts 12 miles apart (half the distance). Niether is really a "suburb" of the other.

Further, Olathe and the other Johnson County cities declared are two counties (and one state) away from KCMO. The term Kansas City Metropolitan Area is likely much more appropriate.--Paul McDonald 15:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Two counties? Johnson County is adjacent to Jackson County, Missouri. JFMorse 15:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I would say that Kansas City, KS is to Kansas City, MO what St Paul is to Minneapolis. So is St Paul a Suburb of Minneapolis? No. Neither is Kansas City, KS a suburb of Kansas City, MO. Together the two cities form the original urbanized core that has expanded into what is now the greater Kansas City Metropolitan Area. Thus Overland Park and Olathe are both suburbs of The Kansas City, KS / Kansas City, MO metro. The fact that Overland Park's population and economy now surpasses that of the original urban center of Kansas City, KS and perhaps one day may even surpass that of the much larger Kansas City, MO is immaterial to it's status as a suburb of Kansas City KS/MO. However; as is the case with so many suburbs; Overland Park and Olathe have grown so large, both by population and economy, that they can be considered to be simultaneously a suburb of the Kansas Cities and a City in their own right. Justin8216 01:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

State Government

Does anyone know how the state government is set up? I heard Nebraska is the only state with one legislative body. How many state senator and legislators are there? How long is their term?

Just thought someone out there would know.

Important Cities

The Important Cities section seems lacking and a bit onesided to JOCO.:( Maybe some editing or addtion of cities could help this section out! --buzlink 02:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, it lists Salina as having 85,000 people. The page for Salina, though, cites that it has a population of something like 46,000. I never thought that Salina was more populous than, for instance, Lawrence, but could I be wrong?

I fixed it. It was done by an anon user in October. —Mike 03:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

African American Settlers

Whoever is editing out the parts about African American settlers and calling it "drivel" needs to do a reality check. African American settlers were far more important to Kansas State history than many realize. StudierMalMarburg 21:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

A picture is worth quite a few words

Came here looking for a few nice photos of Kansas, to get a general overview of the state. There are zero photos on the page. Vranak 04:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

True, it could be better, but you might want to start over in Commons:

• Category:Kansas
• User:Moverton/Southeast Kansas, a few I took —Mike 00:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

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