Talk:Korean drama/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Sock (talk · contribs) 18:18, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I will be reviewing this in a few hours. Sorry that you had to wait so long! Sock (tock talk) 18:18, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

My most sincere apologies, Teemeah. I got incredibly busy last week and wasn't able to get to this until now. However, now I can get to it! Again, sorry for the wait. I made a few small grammar fixes throughout, feel free to take a look at them.

Lead

• The lead sentence is practically the definition of "run on". Is it necessary to state that they are in the Korean language? We don't state that western things are in the English language, so I feel like this can be reasonably inferred. Either way, the first sentence should be broken up or shortened.

Format

• "may be longer, with 50 to 200 episodes, but they also run for only one season." Needs a source.
• Whole second paragraph is unsourced.

History

• "After the Korean War, radio dramas such as Cheongsilhongsil (1954) reflected the country's mood." What mood was that?
• "Television broadcasting began in 1956 with the launch of an experimental station, HLKZ-TV, which was shut down a few years later due to a fire. The first national television channel was Korean Broadcasting System (KBS), which started up in 1961." The article for KBS says that they purchased HLKZ-TV. This would certainly be notable if it's true.
• Kim Jae-hyeong does not need a link if there won't be one soon.
• "This era marked the start of export for Korean dramas, setting off the Korean wave." Source?

Production

• "expressing their concerns." About....
• "The Korean media have a separate word to describe irregular, short sleeps that actors resort to, in often uncomfortable positions, or within the set: jjok-jam (쪽잠), or "side-sleeping"." Is this really relevant to the article?

Crew

• This entire section's formatting seems inappropriate to me. Please see WP:NOTDIRECTORY and try to figure out how much of it you can work in to prose. Try to use the format that's utilized for the scriptwriters.
• Choi Wan-kyu and Pyo min-soo don't need links.

Music

• Which "other Asian countries" did "My Destiny" perform well in?

Rating system

• How does this pertain to the genre rather than the networks or channels? I would think this would possibly belong in the Television in South Korea article, but not in here.

Reception

• "Korean series follow their own formula, are innovative and don't conform to Western television productions". That is far to opinionated to not have the name of who said it attached. Also, what does "don't conform to Western TV productions" mean? I live in the west, and I have no idea what this is referring to.
• "the only Korean drama series Sandglass" Huh? That sentence is confusing.
• "As of May 2010, Korean dramas began airing on a DramaFever channel on Hulu." Source needed.

Viewership ratings

• This section is fine, but why aren't First Love or What is Love discussed when they're the most viewed K-dramas ever? Seems like an odd thing to neglect from an article on the genre.

Images

• There were far too many pictures cluttering the right side of the page. I've gone ahead and removed some, so feel free to look over them and decide which should be restored. In my opinion, the placement I established is the appropriate amount, but I may not have chosen the ideal photos.

Overall, this article is incredibly well-researched and quite good. There were a lot of grammar issues that I think I've mostly fixed, but outside of that and what I've listed above, I didn't find a whole lot of problems. I'll be putting this on hold for a week. If I don't hear from you in that time, I'll have to fail the nomination. However, if you respond or start editing in that time, I'm not going to fail it outright. Great work! Sock (tock talk) 15:05, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Since I haven't participated in such a discussion before, I hope my attempt to answer some of these comments doesn't offend by ignoring conventions in such cases.

I'm the original author of the "History" section which Teemeah considerably revised in the process of revising the whole article. However, three of your comments go to things that were in my version, so I want to address them.

As to Cheongsilhongsil, the mood is, um, after the Korean War. Does the section need to address the incredible destructiveness of that war? The cite goes to an article which devotes a short paragraph to the topic, but this is a *radio* drama, not a TV drama. My original point in mentioning it was to establish radio's dominance, something that didn't change until what's often described as a golden age of TV, and specifically drama, in the early 1970s. (I normally hear of two gigantically important dramas of that time, and my version of the section mentioned them. Teemeah's version mentions a third, plus one of mine. Whatever. Way too little has been said in English about this period; I don't know whether Teemeah has access to useful sources I can't read.)

HLKZ and KBS - I'm not sure there was anything to purchase. What's been said in English about HLKZ is roughly as follows: It was originally started by a guy who got the distribution contract for a bunch of old RCA TVs in South Korea in the mid-1950s, and needed to provide programming to sell them. After a while (I don't have my notes handy), he sold to the publisher of a daily newspaper, um, the Hankuk Ilbo? That was the ownership put out of business by the fire, early in 1959. The creatives then glommed onto the offer of a daily half-hour, more on weekends, by the AFKN, the American Armed Forces Korea Network. They, of course, went over to KBS once it started. Other than them, I'm not sure HLKZ had any meaningful assets by 1961, over two years after the fire; it kind of depends on what exactly burned. All programming was aired live, and if I understand the technology there wasn't any kind of videotape library; only tiny fragments of footage seem to have been recorded by viewers, some of which can be seen on YouTube.

Exports and the "Korean Wave". The article still cites an article by Shim Doobo (who writes as Doobo Shim) on this subject, but at a quick glance I'm not sure that's as clear as another article he wrote, which leads the collection edited by Iwabuchi which is still cited as well. There's also a comprehensive study on the economics and exports of Korean dramas, also cited, the dissertation by Jeon. In a nutshell: Jeon mentions a few dramas exported in the 1980s, but cites no source and gives no details; nobody else refers to any, in English or any other language I read. Shim notes that at the first international event MBC got its own booth at, it sold on two dramas: Eyes of Dawn to Turkish TV (he calls it the first drama seen on a European network), What Is Love to Hong Kong. This is in 1992, when people meters had just come to South Korea, and those two had proven ratings champs (both are still on the top ten rated episodes list). Shim's claim concerning the coining of the Mandarin Chinese term 'hanryu', in Korean 'hallyu', which is usually translated "Korean wave", is that a Beijing journalist used it to describe the response to the Chinese Central TV rebroadcast of What Is Love, in 1997. So there you go.

My personal relationship with Wikipedia was torpedoed by a later incident involving a Korean drama, in which my biggest single concern was the apparent claim, in Wikipedia's standards of evidence, that Jeon is an unreliable source. Essentially as a result, I don't intend to edit any Wikipedia articles in the foreseeable future. So I don't know that my opinion carries any weight. But I think Teemeah did a superb job; in my own writing on K-drama, not yet made public and certainly not a reliable source by Wikipedia's standards, I specifically recommend this article as an excellent introduction to the whole topic. I don't know and don't really care what Wikipedia means by "Good Article", but if that isn't an abuse of English, then I should think it obvious that this article should qualify.

Joe Bernstein, joe@sfbooks.com

66.194.72.19 (talk) 06:36, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

As many other things came up, I was unable to keep up with this review as I planned. However, Teemeah, I still haven't heard anything from you, so I'm going to have to fail this article. Please use my tips and feel free to re-nominate when you have more time, I would be happy to review it again if you do. Sock (tock talk) 10:49, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry about this @Sock: but the notification system seems to be still buggy. I have not received a notification about you pinging my name here in january (I can make a screenshot of my notifications page if you want). I got the notification about your latest ping of Feb 3 only, when I was out of the country anyways. I cannot reflect these points right now, would take some time to do the requested changes, so I will just consider this article a failure. This system in enwiki is anyways way too complicated and just too beurocratic with too many rules to keep in mind if someone wants to achieve FA or GA, so I just give up trying and go back to my home wiki. Nobody needs Korean FAs and GAs here anyways. *sigh* Thank you for the review anyway. Teemeah ^{편지 (letter)} 14:43, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear that you've been discouraged by this, Teemeah. I'd be more than happy to review this again if you wanted to make the changes and renominate. Sorry to hear that you didn't get my notifications. Sock (tock talk) 15:03, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

and I have not received this time either, just put the page on my watchlist and saw your change. maybe we should inform the related technical department but I!ve no idea who deals with notifications... Thank you for your offfer but I think I will not nominate again. :) Teemeah ^{편지 (letter)} 15:50, 5 February 2015 (UTC)