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Talk:List of European Cup and UEFA Champions League finals/Archive 1

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Archive 1

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Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2018

In champions league list of grounds hosting finals ( by name) Heysel Stadium is listed as hosting 4 times. However, in your breakdown of total times ,Heysel is omitted. This error should be corrected. Jw4076 (talk) 09:03, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Heysel wasn't omitted, it's just that it was being displayed by a different name (King Baudouin Stadium). I've piped this to Heysel now, so there shouldn't be a discrepancy now. – PeeJay 11:28, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Nationality columns

Isn't it a bit confusing having the nationality columns so prominent? Can we refer to the nations by their FIFA tricodes instead of their full names? – PeeJay 19:20, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Tottenham Hotspur vandalism

No idea at all how to change the edit, but the table currently says Spurs have 3 European Cups which is obviously incorrect.

Can someone revert it please? Sluggor (talk) 21:53, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Done, this template is edited separately at Template:UEFA Champions League performance by club. Snowflake91 (talk) 22:05, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Article title

Should we include "European Cup" in the title? I think that the article should be consistent with the main article, which is UEFA Champions League, and not European Cup and UEFA Champions League, so using only the current name should be fine. And there is no consistency accross other competitions anyway, for example we have List of UEFA Cup and Europa League finals, but at the other hand we have List of UEFA Cup Winners' Cup finals (and not List of European Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Cup Winners' Cup finals) and List of UEFA Super Cup matches (and not List of Super Competition, European Super Cup and UEFA Super Cup matches). Basically, all those competitions are officially the same, just renamed, so we should use only the current name in all sub-articles to simplify things. Snowflake91 (talk) 15:19, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

The comparison with List of UEFA Cup Winners' Cup finals is kinda spurious. As I have pointed out, the list contains finals that were not played under the UEFA Champions League brand, so to call the article "List of UEFA Champions League finals" implies the list begins in 1993. – PeeJay 23:00, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
But its the same copmetition, its not like the winners are counted separately since 1993 in any source. According to that logic, we should rename List of Arsenal F.C. seasons to List of Dial Square F.C., Royal Arsenal, Woolwich Arsenal F.C., and Arsenal F.C. seasons because their early seasons were not played as "Arsenal FC", and this would make absolutely no sense. Snowflake91 (talk) 09:32, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
I don’t have any problems with your argument, my issue was just that the move should have been discussed before being put through as uncontroversial when it clearly isn’t. – PeeJay 09:49, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
I have fully move-protected the article. @Ae245 and Pizzigs: I advise you to join in the discussion here, with a requested move being an option for further input from others. Sdrqaz (talk) 12:04, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
I agree with everything Snowflake91 said here in this post. Ae245 (talk) 12:12, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
I'm okay with whatever the community agrees on. My only concern was consistency, as all of the related articles (History of the European Cup and UEFA Champions League, List of European Cup and UEFA Champions League winning managers, List of European Cup and UEFA Champions League winning players, European Cup and UEFA Champions League records and statistics, as well as List of UEFA Cup and Europa League finals, List of UEFA Cup and Europa League winning managers, List of UEFA Cup and Europa League winning players, UEFA Cup and Europa League records and statistics, and List of UEFA Cup and Europa League top scorers) would need to be renamed if we were to rename this one. Pizzigs (talk) 13:36, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
Agreed. The issue really is that when people talk about the Champions League, they're usually only referring to the post-1992 competition, whereas the European Cup refers to the competition's entire history from 1955 onwards. I understand the argument about List of Arsenal F.C. seasons not including Dial Square, Royal Arsenal and Woolwich Arsenal in the title, but Arsenal F.C. as a name encompasses the club's entire history in a way that UEFA Champions League doesn't quite do for the entire history of the European Cup. – PeeJay 17:16, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
I agree with @PeeJay: and @Pizzigs:, the Champions League mainly refers to the competition post 1992, before which it was, and still is in some regards, known as the European Cup. I don't see the need to change it, especially when you'd have to change a lot of other lists too. Strikes me as a case of if it's not broken don't fix it. NapHit (talk) 17:35, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Edition number column

I think that this article really need edtion column. Because European Cup and UEFA Champions League have so many editions.

We can't count the number of edition intuitively.

If European Cup and UEFA Champions League have just 10 editions. We can count the number of edition intuitively.

Of coures, I also think that edition column is not needed. But in the future, European Cup and UEFA Champions League have 100 editions more. Edition column is necessary criteria. Footwiks (talk) 16:09, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Why is it necessary? There are barely any reliable sources that refer to the competition by edition, almost all of them refer to it by season. Adding it in because we can't count how many there are at the moment is a very weak argument. NapHit (talk) 16:14, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
Per above, it's not necessary because we've never included this in any of the similar lists. This isn't the Super Bowl or something where editions are the most important part of information. And no one would really mention something like "Chelsea won the 57th edition of the CL", but rather "Chelsea won the 2011/12 edition of the CL", so completely unnecessary. Snowflake91 (talk) 16:49, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
NapHit and Snowflake91/ How do you explain attendance column in the table? Also, We can check out detailed information about the attendence in main article. Also generally no one would remember attendance of final match and mention something like "Chelsea won CL with attendance 62,500". In your logic, Attendance column are not necessary. So Do you agree that I totly delete attendance column?
I think that edition information is a really basic information in all competition articles, even if generally many people would not mention the edition information. If there is edition column in all competition articles, This is very useful function. Firstly We can intuitively recognize that the number of edition until now. Also We can intuitively recognize the many additional information. For example, Which season is 20th or 30th anniversary season, Within 10th Edition, Which club is most successful or Within 20th Edition, Which club is most successful and so on. In conclusion, Edition column can provide convenience to readers. Please consider in terms of functionality in the table instead of mentioning edition number in press or football fans
Honestly, If table have so many item colums, So we have to choose really necessary item column . I can understand your opinions. But current table only 5 item coloums: season, winnres, runners-up, venue, attendacne. If edition column added in the table, Do you really think that table is very caotic and confused? Please take it easy. Let's keep an eye on the table with edition column. If edition column cause problem. I directly delete at that time.
Footwiks (talk) 07:29, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
Using whataboutism regarding the attendance row to further your point isn't going to work. Simply put, almost no reliable sources, newspapers, sports broadcasters etc. refer to these competitions by edition, they refer to them by season. This isn't American sports, where that is more common. Adding an edition row, adds nothing to the table and is completely unnecessary. You have two editors here who disagree with you, and your arguments are tenuous at best. NapHit (talk) 10:35, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
OK I really understand your point, I reckon that you also really understand my point. It seems to be a parallel argument. Until now, There are just three editors in this discussion. And two editors who disagree with me seems to be editor who specialize in association football. Especially you seems to be misunderstood that to add edition number column in the table is imitate American sports style and that hurts association football's pride. I'll say it again. Please consider in terms of functionality in the table, Edition column can provide convenience to readers

Therefore I would like to hear various sports article editor's opinions. I newly created the discussion page at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports and arranged my opinion and your opinion. Please visit and polish your opinion. Let's hear other user's opinions and discuss at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports,Footwiks (talk) 08:03, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

It's nothing to with pride, convenience or anything else, it's simply that the row is unnecessary. As I keep saying, we refer to past seasons or even years, not editions in football. Saying that they do x in American sports means we should do it in a sport that doesn't follow that convention is ludicrous. The functionality of the table is fine as the season is the main identifier almost everyone will look to. You're essentially trying to fix something that isn't broken. NapHit (talk) 10:30, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
We can read the below phrase in 2022–23 UEFA Champions League and 2021 Copa América.
The 2022–23 UEFA Champions League is the 68th season of Europe's premier club football tournament
The 2021 Copa América was the 47th edition of the Copa América,
Every association football season articles have upper phrase. Ordinal number of seasons or editions is also important information to association football competition
You look misunderstood that Ordinal number of seasons or editions is only important information to American sports.
So Like you delete my contribution, Do you really want to delete these phrase in every associaition football season articles?
I don't understand you. Every association football season articles have phrase about ordinal number of seasons or editions.
So Just I added this ordinal number to the table.
Why do only main article have ordinal number of seasons or edition information?
I really can't understand it logically.
17:34, 14 October 2022 (UTC) Footwiks (talk) 17:34, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
Because there is a big difference by stating that x season is the x edition of a competition in the season article, as opposed to listing them all in this list, when we refer to the editions by season. If I want to reference a past edition I'll use the season not the actual number. You raised the issue at WT:SPORTS, two more people opposed your proposal, that makes a total of four. There's no consensus for your changes, whether you think it's logical or not. NapHit (talk) 19:20, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
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