Talk:List of Italian-American neighborhoods
|This page was nominated for deletion on 2006 May 8. The result of the discussion was merge and redirect to Italian American.|
- 1 Merge Complete
- 2 Data sources
- 3 There are 17.8 million Italian Americans and there is no citation to claiming NYC is a modern destination
- 4 Lots of cleaning up on quotes that either don't have citation, are misleading, incomplete or not true
- 5 No citation for claim that there is modern Italian immigration to New York City
- 6 Why would you delete Connecticut being in the top 5 Italian American states?
I think there is an Italian community in Donaldsonville, LA that's not listed on here. I'm not sure, though. Anybody know?
Epodunk has pages for various ethnicities that rank US communities by percentage of the ancestry group in question. See here for Italian Ancestry. This is a great source because it already extracts and ranks the data for us, without needing to head to the Census Bureau. The problem is that the numbers don't appear to match the raw Census data that you'd find on http://www.Census.gov. It appears that Epodunk is adjusting the numbers to reflect that people can report multiple nationalities. For example, 19,383 people who live in Lyndhurst, New Jersey listed 23,389 different ancestries, a total of 120.7%. While the Census shows 40.8% of Lyndhurst residents reporting Italian ancestry, Epodunk appears to have divided this by 1.207 to come up with an "adjusted" Italian ancestry of 33.8% for Lyndhurst. Is this a proper step to do with the data? How can we download accurate raw data by place within state so that we can show the original Census data, without having to extract it one at a time for each municipality? Alansohn (talk) 17:00, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
There are 17.8 million Italian Americans and there is no citation to claiming NYC is a modern destination
An estimate of 20 million Americans are of Italian or Sicilian descent. New York City has by far the most Italian-Americans in one area though and is still a common destination for Italians coming over to start a new life in America.
The estimate from a 2006 U.S. Census estimate actually listed in a Wikipedia article is 17.8 million. While New York City is one of the largest areas for Italian Americans in numbers rather than percentages (like many other ethnic groups), there is no citation claiming it is a common destination for Italians coming over to start a new life in America. There is no report of any wave of modern Italian immigration. Or even previous decades. Why exactly would it require saying they'd need to start a new life in our country anyway? Italy is a very wealthy country. Most of their expatriates are in EU countries and to a lesser degree Canada and Australia. TomNyj0127 (talk) 22:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Also, while there is a growing population in Atlanta as a whole, there is nothing specifically indicating a growing Italian American population. While it may be growing due to migration from northern and midwestern states, the wording exaggerates it. TomNyj0127 (talk) 22:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
New Orleans actually has an Italian American population below the normal statistic of the average of America. While it necessarily isn't none, there are other parts of Louisiana (including Independence which is 30.7% and not in the New Orleans area) that have large Italian American populations. The gulf port (Biloxi, MS) and eastern Texas (Galveston) tend to have similar Italian American percentages of ~4-6%. TomNyj0127 (talk) 22:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Lots of cleaning up on quotes that either don't have citation, are misleading, incomplete or not true
During the labor shortage in the 19th-early 20th centuries, planters in the Deep South did attract some Italian immigrants to work as sharecroppers, but they soon left the extreme anti-Italian discrimination and strict regimen of the plantations for towns or other states.
The only places Italian Americans immigrated to in the south in notable numbers were New Orleans and the area, eastern Texas, a little bit in other parts of the gulf port (ex. Biloxi, MS, Independence, LA) and Tampa, FL. There should be citation provided to this. There was generally less immigration to the south from all countries during the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth century at the peak of Italian immigration because the area was poor. Also, many African-Americans remained working on these farms and many hadn't left until after WWI when industrialization motivated them to move to northeastern and mid-western cities. Please do not say the Italian embassy made claims without providing citation. TomNyj0127 (talk) 00:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
In Kansas City, Missouri, the areas known as "North of the River" (and the former areas of "The North End" and "Northeast Kansas City") have flourished with Italian American families, mostly of Sicilian heritage, from 1st to 3rd generation.
There is no citation to this entire quote. And there is specifically no citation on claiming 1st to 3rd generation. This is unlikely true too. I doubt Italians - from a wealthy country in present day, would migrate to a Midwestern state with populations declines. TomNyj0127 (talk) 00:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Since the 1950s, like many Americans, Italian Americans have moved to the cheaper, slower-paced and rapidly growing Western states, including Arizona, Colorado, Nevada (especially Las Vegas), Oregon, Texas (mostly in the Houston and Dallas areas) and Washington (especially Seattle).
Many of these places actually aren't cheaper nor slower paced. Places like Las Vegas, Houston and Seattle are quite busy areas. Seattle is actually quite known to be very expensive. I do not know why Las Vegas or Seattle is exclusively listed as especially so please provide citation or an explanation. Italian American percentages throughout the entire Houston and Dallas area are pretty low too so I don't believe it is appropriate to leave that. Tom00:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Most Italian-American organizations and demographic experts say that they leave to escape the high real estate prices, cold weather and traffic, among other reasons, in the congested Northeast and East Coast in general.
What organizations claimed this? What link provided this quote? What demographic experts have said this? I will also be adding Connecticut as one of the states with high Italian American populations and will be listing each state from most to least in order. TomNyj0127 (talk) 00:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
The city was 60% Italian descent in the 1960 census.
There is no 1960 Census citation provided. Also, this would not be relevant to the modern day Italian-American neighbors and respective percentages. Tom00:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
== District of Columbia ==
The city of Miami shouldn't be mentioned because the city overall has a low Italian American percentage. Tampa is ~6-7%, which is only slightly above national average too. It'd be more appropriate to name specific neighborhoods rather than an entire city. The other Floridian cities mentioned are not high enough to recognize as Italian American neighborhoods as well. Nor would Atlanta which actually has an Italian American population below the average of the country. The same can be said to New Orleans, Cleveland, Youngstown, Detroit, Baltimore, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Seattle, Tacoma, Buffalo, Albany and all the areas mentioned in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area. The entire city of Las Vegas is only about national average too. All of the neighborhoods mentioned in Baltimore and the suburbs are still not high nationally speaking. It wouldn't be appropriate to claim the entire city of Boston is either. I also revised Independence to say 30.7% rather than 29.5% as the citation used on the main Italian American article shows that. Areas in New Jersey which do not have that significantly high Italian American percentages are Trenton (nor South Trenton which is apart of it), West New York, Jersey City, Camden, Elizabeth, Paterson, Orange, Ironbound (no citation for leading quote) and Atlantic City (nor Ducktown which is apart of it).
The Bronx has an Italian American percentage comparable to the rest of the country. The East Bronx is no different. Brooklyn as a whole is also not much higher. Bay Ridge is not high enough to deem an Italian American neighborhood. Carroll Gardens historically was but is not presently. Cobble Hill was to some degree too. While there were larger Italian American populations are one time, East New York, Kensington, Red Hook and Canarsie were never known to be Italian American neighborhoods and currently have low percentages. Those neighborhoods were more known to be Jewish and some still presently do have significant Jewish populations. Please note that this article is supposed to be about Italian American neighborhoods rather than entire actual cities which may or may not have significant Italian American percentages. TomNyj0127 (talk) 00:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
In the peak of Italian immigration (1910s), New York City and Chicago according to the 1920 census each had 28 neighborhoods and census tracts in which over 50% of the population was of Italian descent.
There is no citation to this quote. It also lacks organization in the respect it mentions Chicago along with New York City. Also, Chicago has historically had much lesser Italian immigration both numerically and percentage wise. TomNyj0127 (talk) 00:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
East Harlem - birthplace of actor Al Pacino. The highest concentration of Italians in East Harlem can be found in Italian Harlem between Pleasant Avenue to the east, First Avenue to the west, East 114th Street to the south and East 120th Street to the north.
Little Italy has many Italian restaurants. However, it is not residentially currently an Italian American neighborhood. The neighborhood residentially is virtually apart of Chinatown. It is mostly populated by Chinese immigrants, Chinese-Americans and yuppies.
I also deleted the statement claiming the range from 15,000 to 28,000 Italian Americans in Howard Beach because it is to wide a range to merit integrity and there is no citation. Astoria and Ridgewood are largely mixed neighborhoods that are not significantly Italian American too. TomNyj0127 (talk) 00:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
200,000 people do not claim Italian origin in Staten Island. That'd require over 40% of the island being so. According to the last U.S. Census estimation done during 2005-2007 which is listed as citation in the Italian American Wiki article, 34.8% of the borough if Italian American. I will change this to 170,000, which would be mathematically relevant. All of the neighborhoods mentioned in Staten Island are actually not more than the average of the island so it is not necessary to write specific neighborhoods. St. George is actually less. The Italian American percentage tends to be higher in whiter parts of the island (mainly the south shore).
Regarding Philadelphia, Kensington, West Kensington, Northeast and southwest Philadelphia all do not have Italian American percentages that are significantly above national average.
I will also be revising the statement regarding Italian American Waldeneses from Lombardy and Italo-Protestants in the Utah section. These groups are well noted but do not merit relevance to Utah specifically. The Mormons in Utah would though which I will leave. I will leave the statement regarding the region of West Virginia. However, I will not for those specific cities which don't have significant Italian American populations.
Also, I am not sure why Johnstown, Rhode Island is listed as 53.6% Italian American. The Census did not claim this nor did Epodunk. It is listed as 46.7% on the other article which I will change it to. I will re-organize each town by percentage in order. It is not necessary to mention Warwick and Bristol. Roseto, PA is also listed as 41.8% rather than the larger statistic given. The Atlantic coast of Florida is not specifically known for having more Italian Americans. That statement would only be true for part of the Atlantic coast and that'd be in select areas. The same argument could be made toward the gulf of Mexico though. TomNyj0127 (talk) 00:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
The guardia di Finanza influences the neighborhoods greatly. this is the law enforcement in certain regions of Italy. there are other many influential police forces in italy..
Please do not re-submit information without saying you'll do so. It is reasonable to take information that requires citation that isn't provided. Please don't just do stuff without writing on here first though. It is disrespectful. TomNyj0127 (talk) 15:12, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Article states Connecticut is second behind Rhode island in percentage of Italians, and lists the percentage as 19.3%. Yet under Rhode Island, the percentage of Italians there is listed as 19%. This would actually make Connecticut higher than Rhode Island in percentage of Italian Americans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 18:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
No citation for claim that there is modern Italian immigration to New York City
There is absolutely no citation nor reason to believe there is modern Italian immigration to New York City nor any city. It is a lie and promoting misleading ingorance if you put it back up. I will continue to delete it until citation is provided. TomNyj0127 (talk) 15:18, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Why would you delete Connecticut being in the top 5 Italian American states?
With all due respect too, for you to delete Connecticut from the top 5 list state of Italian Americans when it is the second highest in terms of percentage is not helping your argument to leave a massively uncited and non-factual article up. Did you even look through all of the corrections I made? Or did you just change it back because you didn't like someone making changes? Please show respect. I did so by literally posting every single thing I'd do. Show the same courtesy. TomNyj0127 (talk) 15:20, 31 March 2010 (UTC)