Talk:Marriage in the United States/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Ruby2010 (talk · contribs) 17:52, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi there. I will be reviewing this article against the GA criteria soon.

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

Comments[edit]

To start out, I will list some preliminary issues in need of fixing before I tackle the main article body:

  • If you look at this link, you will see three wikilinks need to be redirected to their correct article (Attachment, Jack Baker, and Church)
  • The references section is a mess. Refs 1, 2, 6, 11, 24, 26, 27, 30, 32, 33, 34, 37 need to be formatting correctly (see Template: web cite)
  • Refs 6, 17, 29, 31, 37 are missing either their year, page number, author, publisher, or other important information (I see your professor has marked some of what is needed)
  • As has already been indicated on the article talk page, the current lead is unacceptable. It needs to be a summarization of the main article body, and not have information that is not found below it.

I know your submission date was today, but would you like a few days to address everything on the talkpage before I continue this review? Please let me know here. Thanks, Ruby 2010/2013 18:38, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

This is just a note that I've informed students that Good Articles reviews have been posted for some articles and they should reply to them ASAP. Thank you for taking up this review! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 00:11, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
Re the message on my talkpage, I'm fine waiting a few days for the issues on the listed article talkpage to get looked at. I'll plan on coming back Friday for a full article review unless someone says differently. Thanks, Ruby 2010/2013 05:09, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Re the message about ref 6: I made one small edit to it, but I'm not really sure what the problem was (other than the book title being incorrect). Does it still look incorrect? Ruby 2010/2013 05:07, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm perfectly fine waiting til Monday. Hope you guys have a productive weekend. Best regards, Ruby 2010/2013 21:05, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Further comments[edit]

Full prose review will begin now (my comments in bold):

Lead:

  • "This article covers..." Not proper for a Wikipedia article. Just summarize what the article says (look at other articles for examples, like Anti-miscegenation laws in the United States)  Done
  • Wikilink green cards in lead  Done
  • "Some marriages are happy, but some are unhappy and full of problems, so they end in divorce." It's best to delete this, or rephrase it (not encyclopedic)  Done
  • For such a long article the lead should be larger (another paragraph or two is needed)  Done

History:

  • ""People wanted a spouse who did not pry too deeply. The ideal mate, wrote U.S. President John Adams in his diary, was willing 'to palliate faults and mistakes, to put the best construction upon words and actions, and to forgive injuries.' "[4]" Where does the quote begin and end?  Done
  • This is what it says now: The ideal mate, wrote U.S. President John Adams in his diary, was willing 'to palliate faults and mistakes, to put the best construction upon words and actions, and to forgive injuries.' "[18] I see an extra ' in there. Is that a typo? Ruby 2010/2013 17:49, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
  • I think this quote within a quote has the appropriate quotations now. --Kgw2 (talk) 02:36, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • "Though not commonly referred to as a sacrament to American Protestants, Roman Catholics commonly refer to marriage as a sacrament.[6] "  Done

Demographics

  • This section is pretty messy. There are a number of citations that need to be addressed.  Done Also, these facts should be inputted into bigger paragraphs.  Not done

Sociology of Marriage:

  • "Some basic types include the following. [17] Delete bolded  Done
  • [18] is a stray reference; add to sentence  Done
  • To tie in how the Theories about love section relates to the US, perhaps mention that Zick Rubin is an American psychologist? It's difficult to see how this section relates specifically to marriage in the US  Done
  • "A "Color Wheel Model of Love" including Lee's 6 Styles of Loving, and the Triangular Theory of Love are two of these perspectives." This sentence needs some clarification. What is the "Color Wheel Model of Love"? Something the author coined?  Done
  • I added citation tags to the Marriage rituals section. The entire section is unsourced  Done

Wedding ceremonies

  • Section mainly looks good
  • Just delete "Wedding ceremonies in the United States have very few things in common." and combine the first two paragraphs  Done
  • "As the couple begins to leave the church, family and friends throw rice or wheat their way, which symbolizes fertility.[2]" Make clear this does not occur at all weddings  Done
  • "These gifts allow the new couple to start their lives together." Gifts don't really allow it; change allow to help  Not done

Laws

  • I added a few citation tags; these sections need references  Not done (One more ref needed)
  • Wikilink Mormons. Also, make clear that polygamy occurs in a radical sect that is no longer affiliated with the Mormon Church  Done
  • "“Today’s Mormons live in every state of the United States and in 162 countries. Mormon men and women can be found in all professional fields—doctors, teaches, police officers, scientists, and soldiers. [30]" This whole sentence really has nothing to do with marriage laws  Done

Same-sex marriage

  • Overall a well-written, interesting section
  • Change History heading to Background  Done
  • "...that haven't favored gays..." haven't -> have not"  Done
  • "...which, interestingly, contains the most Jews in America, so it can be said that most Jews in the U.S. support gays and gay rights.[32]" Delete this sentence (interesting but in no way encyclopedic)  Done

Green-card marriages

  • ""Every year over 450,000 United States citizens marry foreign-born individuals and petition for them to obtain a permanent residency (Green Card) in the United States."[35]" Needs an attribution (according to...)  Done
  • I added a number of citation tags- add references to these sections  Done
  • "the emigrants country.[37]" -> emigrant's  Done
  • "worked forty social security act eligible quarters (10 years)... -> Social Security Act. What is this? Add a relevant wikilink?  Not done (Capitalize it)
  • "...due to the internet." Internet  Not done
  • "South/Southeast Asia, the Philippines, Thailand, Sri Lanka, India, Taiwan, Macao, South Korea, Hong Kong, and China" Wikilink these countries  Done
  • "Even though this is a large problem the upcoming fear of industrialized industries is that the mail- order brides are not trying to overcome poverty, but in fact seeking an easy immigration route by only staying married for long enough to secure permanent citizenship and then divorce their husbands." No idea what the first part means; also too much of a run-on sentence
  • I don't think "upcoming" is the correct word here. Also, "There is an upcoming fear of industrialized industries..." doesn't really make sense. Needs another rewriting Ruby 2010/2013 17:44, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Divorce

  • Wikilink South Dakota  Not done
  • I added 2 citation tags  Not done
  • ""Married adults now divorce two-and-a-half times as often as adults did 20 years ago and four times as often as they did 50 years ago... between 40% and 60% of new marriages will eventually end in divorce. The probability within... the first five years is 20%, and the probability of its ending within the first 10 years is 33%... Perhaps 25% of children ages 16 and under live with a stepparent."" Needs an attribution (according to...). This sentence can be probably be phrased in your own words anyway  Not done

Relevant types of unions

  • ""A civil union is a formal union between two people of the same or of different genders which results in, but falls short of, marriage-like rights and obligations."[44]" Needs an attribution (according to...)  Done

Overall comments:

  • Make sure the references (citations) go directly after the period, like so.[12]  Done Then have a space before next sentence  Not done
  • Make sure references have proper formatting (Title, date, author etc)  Not done

Here are my comments. Not sure when this assignment is due for your class, so I'll tentatively place the article on hold for seven days. This period should give you enough time to fix up the article. I'll be busy for the week with Thanksgiving and graduate school, so may not be able to speedily reply to any questions you may have. I'll make my judgment on how it looks in a week. Thanks and good luck, Ruby 2010/2013 19:53, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

A comment from the instructor: the due date is mid-December. I'd hope that all issues will be addressed sooner than that, though. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 00:56, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
I would really like to see this article be the best it can be, so I'll continue to keep this review open until as many improvements as possible have been made. There are a number of suggestions that have still not been implemented. Also, the references section is very shoddy (proper formatting is needed; specifically for refs 3, 5, 6, 14, 15, 23, 26, 36, 45-51, 53, and 54). Thanks, Ruby 2010/2013 17:53, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Just noticed, but it is not proper to cite Wikipedia within Wikipedia (See ref 16). Find a reliable source Ruby 2010/2013 17:56, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Sociology Section[edit]

Hey Ruby, In regards to your comment about reference 18, that actually belongs to "residential patterns," which keeps getting deleted for some reason, this is the second time I've had to re-enter the information, so if it isn't there when you do your review, could you let me know and I'll put it back on the page so you can read it?

Thanks, KazzandraT (talk) 02:50, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Looks like it's still in there! :) Ruby 2010/2013 17:44, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Yet more comments[edit]

Here are other issues (by no means an exhaustive list):

  • The lead image (Image:Maritalstatus.jpg) needs a better explanation (describe it more). It might be better suited in the article body than where it is now. Other appropriate images would be useful too.
  • The history section is pretty disjointed. You mention the early 18th century and then suddenly jump to the 1940s. Gaps need to be filled in
  • Refs aren't really needed in the lead unless the facts are controversial, bound to be challenged, or stats, because the information is already cited in the article body. I deleted some of them.
  • I added a few "clarification needed" tags when you mention "people" What people? Americans?
  • In lead: "Married adults now divorce two-and-a-half times as often as adults did 20 years ago and four times as often as they did 50 years ago... between 40% and 60% of new marriages will eventually end in divorce. The probability within... the first five years is 20%, and the probability of its ending within the first 10 years is 33%... Perhaps 25% of children ages 16 and under live with a stepparent." There's that quote again. Rephrase in own words
  • The John Adams quote still needs work. Where does the quote begin and end? Look carefully
  • What do the marriage models have to do with history? The U Pennsylvania sentence is also really disjointed from the rest of the section.
  • Some of the demographic info can be probably be fleshed out and added to the history section. This is personal preference though. Either way the section needs more expansion.
  • ==Speculation on married couples and their families to 2030== section: What report? Who wrote it? Why is it reliable?
  • "Passionate love is characterized by intense emotions, sexual attraction, anxiety and affection." - Unattributed quote
  • Still lots of ref formatting issues

This is something useful another editor noted about one of your other class group projects that would also apply to yours (particularly the history, demographics sections):

This is probably the biggest issue (the only big problem, in fact): the article reads like a lot of disjointed paragraphs that do not tell a single, integrated story. To achieve GA status, it is not necessary to have professional quality writing, so I'm not expecting perfection. What I'm looking for is a little bit of flow or connectivity. The lead should outline the entire article. Then, as the reader reads the article, it should weave a tale. By "tale" I mean that each section should help the reader place that section in context.

Truth be told, while I'd like to see the article become as good as it can be, it needs lots of work that I quite simply don't think is doable in a 2-week span. It has come a long way since this version. I am thus unfortunately failing this review because of the deficits in 1a, 1b, 3a, 3b, 6a, and 6b of the WP:Good article criteria. I would assess the current state of the article at C class. Thank you all for contributing to Wikipedia, and I hope you do so again soon! Ruby 2010/2013 03:10, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the review. A note for the students: C-class is worth 15 points in our grade, but you can still keep improving the article and I may award you more points if I think that you have improved this article beyond C-class in the weeks to come. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 03:34, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

The following section needs to be rewritten to eliminate bias (see parenthesized portion): "Religion and same-sex marriage Religions in the U.S. have many different opinions of what sorts of same-sex activity and rights should be allowed. Certain religions do not perform same-sex marriages for the sake of separating them from religious affairs, but tolerate civil same-sex marriage ceremonies. Others refrain from performing them because they believe in the separation of church and state. Congregations within the same denomination may even differ in the behaviors each supports.[44] Many who oppose same-sex marriage are conservative Christians who believe homosexuality to be a sin. (Some religious leaders are so fiercely opposed to it that they try to alter the gay person's views on homosexuality by subjecting them to intense classes or sessions in which the goal is to force them to change their orientation and/or repress homosexual feelings. Some people talk about passages in the Bible and how they teach that homosexuality is a bad thing, while others argue that the overall messages, for example, love, override the few anti-gay passages). Religions that have a strong anti-gay stance are Orthodox Judaism, Mormonism, Catholicism, Islam, and conservative Christian denominations. Some religions seem to be indifferent to homosexuality, such as Hinduism and Buddhism, and don't support or reject it. Some religions support same-sex marriage and homosexuality, such as Reform Judaism.[44]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyrone302 (talkcontribs) 03:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)