Talk:NOFX/Genre disputes

As these disputes take too much space in the talk page of NOFX. Any section about NOFX's genres has been placed here. Sincerely, Key of G Minor. ^Tools: (talk, contribs) 17:04, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Punk?

I noticed that the article says that the band is a punk band, however I think it would be more correctly labeled as pop-punk as it misses the edge that punk is known for. I will change the article to say pop punk, but if anyone disagrees please state why on the discussion page :) alf 01:04, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't care how this turns out, but for those editors who are changing the article to say they are a punk band, please DO NOT link to the article punk, this is a disambiguation page. Please link to punk rock. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 18:17, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. There is a certain lack of edge in the music, but it is way to political and shock oriented to be pop-punk. Pop-punk generally doesn't approach politics at all, and if they do, it's usually in the booger picking immature "im such a rebel" style of Green Day (who I am a fan of btw, so I wasn't insulting GD, just stating a fact).

NOFX is a joke. They're a parody of punk. Skrelk (talk) 04:07, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

They are punk and this is my opinion why: main reason why people are fighting over this pop/punk thing is bacause once punk meant something true and passionate and raw. Punk was small and only those that really cared for it stayed with punk - those who wanted to be popular or cool went somewhere else because punk wasnt neither cool or popular But then when record companies needed a new ideas they just took a few shallow traits of punk and made it into pop punk. Some may say it was death for punk but some bands saw that finally thay can do what they love and have loved all these years and make money with it because there were many people who started to open their minds to this type of music. Conclusion: NOFX was and is one of those bands that still care for punk true meanings and calling them pop-punk would be comparing them to bands like Blink 182 or other bands that just sing about irrelevant bullshit and get called somewhat punk because their music is basically somewhat near to some of the great punk bands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Naurispunk (talk • contribs) 18:32, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I dissagree NoFx are like Uber Punk and Amazing Luke12345abcd (talk) 20:03, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Fat Mikes sais they are not pop-punk. argument settled: source [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.99.4.254 (talk) 14:08, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

they used to be hardcore punks and slowly but surely started selling out, but what do you expect though? they have families to support now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.69.4.81 (talk) 22:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't actually call this selling out. The reason why they have changed their style to appeal to a greater audiance is because of the Political Climate in the US. I think they figure the more people they can reach the better. No, a change in sound does not constitute selling out. And now I'll shut up because we broke WP:FORUM 173.64.84.108 (talk) 22:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Dude guys they are punk. Punk is a sound yeah but punk is also an attitude! If you think hardcore punk is the only punk your wrong. They are punk, melodic harrdcore and ska punk are very punk. They are not pop punk. I like pop punk too but I know the difference. They even have a song protesting pop punk. Punk is a way of life and a political ideology that comes out great in their music. RBpunk (talk) 01:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC) RBpunk

Yeah, NOFX are a punk rock band. But, who cares? IMHO, half the people commenting in this section seem to have missed the point (of punk) anyway. benzband (talk) 08:56, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

they are punk

did you ever think why something is called pop, pop stands for popular, this means they have to be on mtv or video hits, becuase they are conciderd a popular band. NOFX arnt popular, they arnt on mtv, thus making them not a pop-punk band,

just becuase they might not be popular doesnt mean there not good, i love that band and refuse to belive they are remotly close to being a pop band.

SO LEAVE IT AS PUNK BAND!!!!

Pop is used as much to describe a style of music as it is to denote whether it is popular or not. Same goes for Pop-Punk or Punk rock or whatever. I still don't think that they are a Punk band, but I have stoppd caring. dr.alf 15:17, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Listen, NOFX is a PUNK band, not pop punk or any of that other rediculous garbage people label music as these days, so get it straight. Don't ever for a second think you can put NOFX under the same categories as Fallout Boy, Yellowcard, The Starting Line and all of that other garbage that people have the nerve to associate with Punk and Punk rock. Those bands may have been influenced by PUNK ROCK bands, but they most certainly are not. So for all of us who actually know NOFX's history and have been supporting them from day one and buying their records and seeing them every time they come to town, don't insult us, the true fans, along with NOFX themselve's by labelling them as a pop punk band. You have some nerve. From A.J.S. the biggest NOFX fan this world has ever seen.

Also they are a fairly popular punk band, and play music that is much more accessable than most punk bands.

Most everyone in the punk scene considers them pop-punk, like Bad Religion. They're much more like the Ramones and Rezillos than Sex Pistols or Crass. Ignoring the facts they were played rather heavily on MTV in the 90s, they have a larger fanbase than most bands anyone would consider punk, and they sung stupid pointless joke songs, they still sound more like an early Blink or Green Day than like a "non-pop" punk band. Genre is defined by music, not popularity (though they'd be pop-punk if it were by popularity anyway).

Plus, isn't "skate punk" these days just pop-hardcore? It's far removed from the skate punk of the 80s.

NOfx is not 'pop punk'

No they're not...they have pop elements, but they are not pop punk.

Made one or two pop-punk songs, are going softy, but I'm backing you up; too much skatepunk history to be pop-punk. Metallica isn't hard rock for making a few hard rock songs. --Mudel 17:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

This group have nothing to do with punk rock music, read the article on punk rock and you'll find that its a movement from the 1970s... mostly happening in New York and London. This band are a Californian pop rock band influenced by Hardcore... they have nothing at all to do with punk rock.

You are so worng I'm not gonna waste my keyboard on you. BTW Wikipedia music articles have so much mistakes you shouldn't trust them too much. --Mudel 17:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, Pop is a form of music, not just a status. - Deathrocker 14:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Duh, they are a pop-punk group. Sorry but its true, I've been in the scene since 1994 and they were one of the main pop-punk bands, also you could call the "punk revival." Also please check up on the pop punk article, it might help you to understand. Xsxex 06:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

The article says "Skate Punk/Ska". I'm happy with that, but NOFX are not "Pop Punk". "Pop Punk" should be given to a band whose entire discography matches that discription. Personally, NOFX are Punk Rock/Skate Punk. --Simsimius 15:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• Pop punk is definitely one of the styles they play. If hardcore and ska punk are going to be listed as styles they play, then pop punk should be for sure. I admit I'm not a huge fan of the band, but I can't think of any NOFX songs that are in the ska punk style. Punk plus horns doesn't equal ska. Most of the media consider NOFX part of the pop punk genre, as do most punk fans. Any so-called real punk rockers I've known consider NOFX a goofy pop punk band for kids. Music genres are defined by majority opinion, and Wikipedia is not a place for reinventing those definitions. User:Mudel has taken it upon himself to redefine the meaning of pop punk, but that's not what Wikipedia is for.Spylab 22:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)Spylab

As far as their label is relevant to this article (which it is for links and what not) , Nofx is pop punk in the sense that Screeching Weasel or Bad Religion are. The term was originally conceived in the 1980s, defined in opposition to hardcore. However, in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the term took on a completely different meaning, implying punk rock that was intended to be popular in a mainstream sense (eg Yellowcard. Formerly, the term was merely stylistic. Now, though, it is loaded with controversy for fans of "true" punk vs. "cookie cutter" punk, etc. Nofx can hardly be described as "lacking edge" or comparable to bands like Fall Out Boy, if only because their music often more closely resembles metal in its speed and instrumental complexity. Furthermore their lyrics are often profane and loaded with explicit political overtones. Thus, they share more in common with original punks like the Clash than they do with bands currently classified as pop punk, no matter what anyone personally thinks of their music. If anything, I would suggest that hardcore be removed as a description of their potential genres (even though Liberal Animation comes pretty close to that). Skate punk is most accurate. Tractorkingsfan 16:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

• Yeah, I've never heard of anyone describe NOFX as hardcore. When I hear the word hardcore, I think of bands like Sick Of It All, Youth of Today, Slapshot, Agnostic Front, Bad Brains, Blood For Blood, early Hatebreed and stuff like that. NOFX is too silly and humourous to be associated with tough-guy bands like that. Attitude-wise, they seem to be more in line with jokey pop punk bands that don't take themselves too seriously, even though they sometimes delve into serious political topics. Spylab 18:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Two things: First, Don't ever call NOFX metal, Fatty will smite you. Second, saying they sometimes delve into serious political topics is not only incorrect, it's an insult to everything they've done and tried to do politically over the years, from statements on society and religion on the Maximum RocknRoll songs to Liberal Animation, to today, with the War on Errorism and Wolves in Wolves' Clothing, especially with the establishment of punkvoter.com, NOFX is much more politically involved than most bands. GeddyIsGodYYZ 13:40 16 November 2006

sorry guys, but this is also for the offspring. people have been arguing that they're not pop punk either, but finally, sources have been brought that shows that they are. to make the offspring feel better, i remembered how the source that quotes the offspring as pop punk also quotes NOFX as pop punk. so i posted it there. please do not change, since it's sourced.Itachi1452 03:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• It's sourced, I'll give you that. I don't really think that NOFX followed Green Day's example and was trying to achieve commercial success. In other words I disagree with what is stated on that link. Personally I don't want to participate in the genre war here. I do not understand why people are so determined to associate NOFX with pop. The way I see it is that "punk" would be the genre and "pop" would be the style and that would be clearly open to interpretation. Instead of changing the genre of the band every 15 minutes, why can't people try contribute something to the article that will actually say put. --Idjit 15:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• the reason you cant decide wheather NOFX is punk or pop punk is because they are in a genre of their own the NOFX genre and i am sure they would agree.

How about "Melodic HC"? 12:25, 2 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.158.85.250 (talk)

god, this is exactly the same point raised in the blink debate. pop-punk is punk mixed with pop music. it isn't necessarily or independently punk thats popular. the sex pistols are popular. the ramones are popular. in many circles, minor threat and the misfits are popular. but that doesn't make them pop-punk, they're just popular punk rock bands. the mr t experience are a pop-punk band but they're not very popular. that doesnt mean they're not pop-punk. why don't people understand? pop-punk is punk rock mixed with pop, and a band that may or may not be pop-punk might be popular with people but it doesnt matter. so dont say that bands aren't pop-punk because they're not very popular because thats completely irrelevant. if 50 cent is popular with people does that make him "pop rap"? if kylie minogue is popular does that make her "pop pop"? i think that its main genre should be punk rock, and then the infobox should have punk rock, skate punk and hardcore punk. --Gpmuscillo (talk) 21:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree. --Jpkmaster (talk) 22:47, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

read the whole thing...its kinda novel in a way NOFX Does Have Pop Punk elements but i'd rather put in a Descendent,Ramones&Buzzcocks Kind OF RELATION rather then Blink 182,Green Day sorts...and i think thats the root of the problem ppl just dont want to associate NOFX with the pop punk thats just that (popular punk (blink 182,green day)because there not like those bands there there own so wut im trying to say is :this is my first time doing this,so someone else should create a shitty consumer whore punk genre list,like u get it right kuz this whole things about association?so we all know consumer whore(the name of the genre) exist,we must let it exsit so the punk rock artical could have NOFX,And the shitty consumer whore artical can have green day......only problem i see is the offspring.......were do they go?.....idk i just wrote a whole bunch of bs.....but the point,just little(but major as in were it counts) pop punk influence ,were not calling them blink 182,kuz they aint even close to no blink 182 ... i read the rules after i made this article or respones(im not computer saviy at all)sry about origanal thought thing.......so who the fuck want to make a punk rock wiki with me...were we can curse and like have origanl wutever@!!!!!it would be like hella cool....whos with!--420bonghits (talk) 22:47, 1feb2008 (UTC)

I agree totally punk Luke12345abcd (talk) 20:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Bands like All Time Low and Paramore are pop punk. Surely NOFX doesn't fall into the same genre as those bands. 123.100.61.101 (talk) 01:44, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

paramore is more fake punk or emo punk not pop punk. Green day is pop punk but they still act like punks RBpunk (talk) 01:11, 12 July 2012 (UTC) RBpunk

Pop-Punk

Nofx are not pop punk. I am reverting this--213.7.9.117 10:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

• They do, in fact play some pop punk music, and their attitude is more in line with goofy, humourous pop punk bands than with typical punk rock bands. Much of the media and music fans consider them pop punk. This is the test of whether a band fits in a genre, not whether you personally think so. I am reverting it. Spylab 22:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid they are on the verge of being labelled 'alternative'. no way are they punk. Chud50 07:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Alternative would be way off. according to the "Punk Rock" Wiki article, "The term punk is used to describe the associated subculture, involving youthful aggression, specific clothing styles, ideologies, and a DIY (do it yourself) attitude", "Punk bands often emulate the simple musical structures and arrangements of 1960s garage rock bands. This emphasis on accessibility exemplified punk's DIY aesthetic, and contrasted with the ostentatious musicianship of many of the mainstream rock bands popular in the years before the advent of punk. " both of which certainly apply to NOFX. If nothing else than for the sake of consistency, don't change the genre to Alternative. GeddyIsGodYYZ 13:30, 16 November 2006

They've made a few softier songs that you may label pop-punk if you want, but that's far from tipping the scale to pop-punk, if anything they are skate-punk the most. Can't ignore their history, not to mention teh first totally punk albums. Yes, 30 tracks of 'WTF is this kid yelling?!' In fact they've made a few anti-pop-punk songs like The seperation of church and skate, Medio-core(although this one's more about copying music), and this line's from Fun things to fuck: Fuck a muslim, fuck a jew, fuck fans of Blink 182 (undoubtably the biggest pop-punk band of all) --Mudel 18:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Seriously, enough with the genre war!

Ok, this is ridiculous. Since when did a band with any sense of humor automatically forsake the right to be called punk? Must any funny band be considered pop-punk? The fact is, that most of their humor is in conjunction with some political statement and they are heavily politically involved not to mention on of the first and longest lasting DIY bands out there. Their music is no where near the style of crappy pop-punk bands like Blink 182 or Yellowcard. Also, it seems to me that people seem to make the mistake of thinking that punk rock has some strict musical attributes, which is far from true. All it takes to be a punk rock band is powerchords and political, leftist, or rebellious lyrics. Punk started as a movement to reflect general dis-satisfaction with society and music trends. It evolved in to a highly political and anti-mainstream forum. It's that simple, and since NoFX seems to fit that definition rather well, I say they are punk.

Mostly everyone I've heard that thinks NoFX are pop-punk have cited the band's relative mainstream popularity. That is not grounds for labelling the band pop-punk, especially if the band has achieved that popularity while remaining DIY and highly political at the same time and never once watering down the lyrics or cheapening the music.

• No, they are not considered pop punk because they have had relative mainstream popularity. They are considered pop punk by many music writers and music fans because of their attittude, lyrical content, vocal style and musical style. My suggestion is to simply label them as skate punk, because that's the only genre people here can agree on. If NOFX don't qualify as pop punk, then they certainly don't qualify as hardcore punk or ska punk. Also, the pop punk genre is a lot more varied in style, and has been around a lot longer than "crappy pop-punk bands like Blink 182 or Yellowcard." Spylab 11:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

• Could this flip-flopping between subgenres be any more pointless? The band has been through a number of lineup changes in the last 20 years, they have recorded in many different styles. Why not just call them punk?

Pop-punk has been around since the ramones, but what all pop-punk bands share in common is that they almost never approach politics. NoFX does. Thus, NoFX couldn't possible be considered pop-punk.

If you agree a source listing NOFX as alternative pop is a bad source...

Please speak out here [2]. Lots of people are listing this site as a source for various articles, but time and time again it gives invalid information. Hoponpop69 18:06, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

A larger conversation on this has opened up here.[3] Please weigh in to make sure wikipedia does not get filled with false information.Hoponpop69 03:48, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

aNOFX genre conflict and "You're wrong" jihad reference.

NOFX is a mix of many genres and depending on their mood, their genre can shift. Their music is a different sounding one from their humble starts in 1983, and its even more politically charged. Their sound in most of their music(not all) is too powerful to be completely labeled as pop punk. As well their lyrics are either too politically or offensive to be labeled as pop punk in the most cause(even their one made for radio song is incredibly politically based, "eat the meek"). Not to mention both Fat Mike's , Melvin, and El Hefe's vocals are far to harsh to be listed in there. As was listed before Screeching Weasel and Bad Religion(Closet monster, The Brat attack, etc etc) are better examples of pop punk, all of which I have a profound amount of respect for. I think the problem lies in who gets listed at pop punk, and who is listing them as pop punk. Bands lsike simple plan and yellowcard have both claimed a pop rock status to avoid conflict with this red headed step child of a genre. Where as bands like blink 182 and good charlotte have claimed the status only to bring it to new lows in the punk community and a tainted image(or to those looking from the outside). No, I think labeling NOFX as pop punk placing your genre skills into the wrong stock.

Also I removed the jihad reference to "You're wrong" as the original writer mistook the lyrics as the act of fighting in a jihad. It actually means they're against the act of jihad (and crusades, the Christian counterpart). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.176.115.107 (talk) 04:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

• I have also reverted this edit. I also reverted it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=NOFX&oldid=98533093

There is no source on this, it is purely opinion. Poor interpretation of lyrics really. --Idjit 15:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

So.... what how exactly we going to source the info that the guy's interpretation was incorrect (which is clearly was)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.10.74.4 (talk) 23:33, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

It takes a special kind of person to interpret "You're wrong - fighting jihad! You're blind faith in god --- You're religions are all flawed ("fuck" as per live album)". Thanks guys for fixing the problem, much appreciated. NOFX is clearly not a fan of muslim extremists especially since 2/4 of the band is jewish (though agnostic jews, but that don't matter to a muslim extremest), of the two "backup members of the and -- 1 is a mexican, and the other is a former drug addict......... Clearly a racist and judgmental group of fellas! (wish I knew how to do roll-eyes here :( Brooks bonkoksi (talk) 15:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Genres

I'm sick and tired of having to revert vandalism by people on the genres. NOFX is NOT melodic hardcore, they ARE punk rock. Also the sourced genres such as ska punk and skate punk should NOT be removed. If the genres are changed in this way again, I will have to start giving block warnings, and I don't want to do that. ╦ﺇ₥₥€Ԋ (talk) 21:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The instructions for the infobox state that the listed genres should only be the main genre(s). And sub-genres should be listed in the body. Whatever the title sentence says, is really what should be in the infobox. Lara❤Love 18:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Genre war

What! Skate-punk? Ska punk? Pop Punk? You gotta be kidding me!

Skate punk is a generic term to describe 90's punk bands that were popular with skateboarders (along with bands like Guttermouth, Screeching Weasel, etc etc....). NOFX is defintely skate-punk.... They also play at least a couple ska songs on each album -- that qualifes them as a ska band, especially if you've watched them live -- they use the horns as much as possible.

The most accurate description would be "pop-punk" as NOFX has sold multiple milllions of records, and have made millions more touring. Not that I hold it against them -- I am thrilled by their success, and I constantly want to get a hold of mike/melvin/eric/hefe just to express my gratitude for how much enjoyment they've brought me over the last 15 years. (know, off topic sorta, I'll try harder promise) :) Brooks bonkoksi (talk) 16:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

"NOFX have always prided ourselves in using our vast and comprehensive knowledge of theory and musicianship in order to perform and compose BOTH kinds of music: punk AND hardcore." [4]

Punk and hardcore are one and the same for the most part. Double speed drums, simple guitar riffs (excluding solos), and preferably offensive/political lyrics.

NOFX's version of "hardcore" is pretty fuckiing tame imo anyway.... (still my fav band)Brooks bonkoksi (talk) 16:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

"We kinda went for more of an old school sound on this record. More hardcore than the previous one. I like it. Favorite song-desperation's gone. Too bad about ska getting mainstream, I don't think I wanna play it anymore." [5]

NOFX : Punk Rock, Hardcore Punk, Ska Punk —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpkmaster (talk • contribs) 01:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

First of all, the genres in the infobox are sourced so they should not be removed. And second, an interview with the band is not a reliable source. The ones that are already listed should stay. End of story. ╦ﺇ₥₥€Ԋ(^talk/_contribs) 05:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh cmon. What if I make a webpage saying that NOFX is emocore or trashmetal? Pop-punk? my ass. You can not compare NOFX with blink 182 or fall out boy--Jpkmaster (talk) 02:24, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

You can't compare blink-182 with Fall Out Boy, but you just did. Try listening to some pop punk bands (other than Fall Out Boy as their music has strayed miles away from pop punk) and then listening to NOFX. There are many similarities. Timmeh^contribs 02:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

No way! NOFX has a very "melodic" punk rock / hardcore punk sound, maybe that's why it sounds kinda pop punk for you. But there's one big rule for Pop-punk bands, they're not indie.Jpkmaster (talk) 01:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

You can't be serious J. NOFX is so clearly pop-punk it's not even funny. They've sold millions of records, made millions more touring, and play a very formulaic style of music (though I happen to thoroughly enjoy their brand of pop-punk (as I do Bad Religion, Pennywise, Bouncing Souls, Stung Out, Lagwagon, etc.... No shame in liking popular music as long as you enjoy it. Hipsters/music snobs are super super lame imo.Brooks bonkoksi (talk) 15:32, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually melodic makes it more "pop". Indie pop punk bands, even very popular ones, are actually very numerous these days - All Time Low, The Academy Is..., and Amber Pacific just to name a few. Timmeh^contribs 02:07, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I have a NOFX tattoo but I'm not touching this with a 20 foot pole. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.164.4.48 (talk) 10:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I have a bunch of klonpin that i'll trade you for the tatoo. You figure out how it works, and I'll get to gether the k-pins. *** JUST KIDDING DUDE ****, solid contribution - thanks!. Brooks bonkoksi (talk) 16:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)