Talk:New Democrats

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POV[edit]

Can we try and replace the word moderate with something else here? Left of the GOP, right of the liberal wing etc. Moderate has a slippery POV to it. Marskell 08:22, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

As it stands now, however, the article is POV -- "neoliberal" and "centre-right"? Come on! --Thorsen 05:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This article is Conservative propaganda with nothing but innuendo to back it. It should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chupacerveza (talkcontribs) 14:32, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

[edit]

This page needs work. It read like an Advert for the ND-PAC, so I have flagged it here in Discussion as such. The flag probably belongs on the article page. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a blog. The article must clearly distinguish the "loosely-organized faction within the Dem party" from the PAC created in 2006. For clarification, when referring to the PAC please use ND-PAC (after the first use, when it is spelled out). Change "traditional Democratic" to "1960s Democratic", because it is more accurate. (Reagan Democrats reacted against hippies, long hair, drugs, the anti-Vietnam protests, secularism, homosexuality, etc., which were not issues among New Deal Democrats -- the tradition.) "Clinton was a classic" should be "Clinton epitomized" (he can't be compared to a non-existing "classic" if he is the origin). In politics, the source of funding must always be identified -- this is the first rule of politics, cui bono. ~~

"most [liberal Democrats] would eventually admit ... that social programs should be more effective" -- this sounds like a sermon: no-one would suggest that social programs should be less effective. Initially flagged {sermon}, but that's not quite it, actually it's a Straw man, so redacted instead.

Disputed[edit]

Is there any real proof that the people on this list are actually "New Democrats"? My issue started with the fact that Christine Gregoire has advocated politically, in a social sense, very liberal politics. This goes against what being a "New Democrat" is all about. Has anyone actually looked into whether or not these people are what they are claimed to be in this list? Dante the Bard 16:55, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Membership in an organization does not always equal sharing beliefs with said organization. The DLC/New Democrats are a prime example. Jim Doyle's a member of the New Democrat Coalition as well, but he's pretty liberal. Vic Snyder is also fairly liberal, as is Debbie Stabenow (who had a liberal score somewhere in the 80's range from the National Journal in 2005, which is high). I think most of the members of the DLC/New Democrats are doing it to improve their image with the voters, not because they actually believe in most of the DLC/New Democrat's goals. 1ne 21:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

If that is the case, then perhaps we should put that information into the article. I feel that to be objective, which would equal factual, we need to provide information that although these candidates are apart of a specific organization, the DLC, there are examples of members going against what the term "New Democrat" and the DLC believe. I won't be able to make any changes to the article right away, because I have real life obligations at the moment, but if you or someone else can make these changes sooner, that would be great. Otherwise, I will make the changes when I have the time. Dante the Bard 22:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Recent edits[edit]

I have done an almost complete and bold rewrite of this article. For one I have removed all of the pov, the areas written like an advert and most of the unsubstantiated claims. I have added new information, all of which is well referenced and have written the article to make it understandable, adding subsections to make the article clearer. I have also expanded the lead to make it fit with the rest of the article. I have attempted to deal with all issues raised on the discussion and would like to point out that new democrats listed can all be found via the DLC sites and the New Democrat associated movements. Best. LordHarris 00:13, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal[edit]

What do you think about merging this article with New Democrat Coalition? --Checco 18:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I support it. —Nightstallion 11:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I oppose a merge. "New Democrat" is a label claimed by several different groups to describe their political platform. The New Democrat Coalitions in the House and Senate are just two of these groups. The Democratic Leadership Council and NDN (formerly known as the New Democrat Network) are two others. If any of these groups doesn't justify an article of their own, I could see them being merged as a section into the New Democrat article, but the New Democrat article itself should not be merged into the article for any of these groups. (Also posted on Talk:New Democrat Coalition.) -- Shunpiker (talk) 01:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Bobby Kennedy?[edit]

Recently I attempted too delete the section that argues that Robert F. Kennedy was the first "New Democrat" simply because Bill Clinton wrote it in his book. However it's difficult too see how RFK fits in with any of the "New Democrat" platform.

Kennedy never advocated for deregulation or free trade whereas Clinton pushed these policies. He voted for expanding the Great Society contrary too Bill Clinton's "welfare reform" bill in 1996 that eliminated a entire welfare agency. Indeed with regards too economic policy RFK and WJC couldn't be more different.

If anything, Kennedy can be called a anti-war liberal. But a "New Democrat" in the style of Bill Clinton? No, this is not accurate. Just because Clinton wants Bobby Kennedy too be the DLC poster child doesn't mean Wikipedia should allow it. Therefore I believe it should be deleted from this page. I'll be happy too get feedback. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TAS1957 (talkcontribs) 18:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

And I restored the passage. You might be right that RFK has been co-opted not only by Clinton, but by many others. However, it's noteworthy, even if you view it as self-serving, when a former president makes such an observation. It's not about Wikipedia 'allowing'; it's about including properly sourced content, rather than original research, per WP:NOR. If you can add published scholarship that challenges Clinton's assessment, please add it. 99.155.206.229 (talk) 18:47, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

It is not a "observation" too give a opinion. Just because Bill Clinton served as President of the United States from 1993 too 2001 does not mean that his opinions are all "observations". And there is no other cited source as too why Kennedy should be called a "New Democrat" other than Clinton's book. It says WP:NOR that a "reliable source" must be used. Bill Clinton's book is a collection of his personal viewpoints rather than scholarly analysis. Unless you can find another source than Clinton's book, it should be deleted. TAS1957 (talk) 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I've restored it again. It's cited, whereas you're employing original research. I'm concerned that you've started editing today, and seem to be looking for content to remove, based solely on your opinions. As I've written at my talk page, please read Wikipedia guidelines, and seek consensus before removing sourced content. To do otherwise won't work. 99.155.206.229 (talk) 19:15, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
I have not given a single opinion in any page. It seems too me that your simply being unreasonable. You keep saying that I use "original research" which is a lie. I simply note due too the fact that there is nothing too back Clinton's claim it should be deleted or moved too Bill Clinton and Robert F. Kennedy. I see no reason why it should be on this article.TAS1957 (talk) 16 August 2011 (UTC)
I've decided too end this thing fast so as a compromise I've titled the section title the section "Claims That Robert F. Kennedy Was a New Democrat". TAS1957 (talk) 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Some research reveals that the assessment has not been limited to Clinton, but has been offered by other scholars. I've added another source, a review of Clark's bio of RFK. 99.155.206.229 (talk) 19:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Do you have any sources from those critical of the statement? So far I have been unable too find any myself. TAS1957 (talk) 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Not yet. I'm logging off for a bit, but if you find anything....I suspect it's possible to find something critical of RFK's liberalism, much harder to find an argument with the 'ND' terminology as applied to him. 99.155.206.229 (talk) 19:54, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Can we add actual examples of New Democrats polciies[edit]

supposedly they are fiscal conservatives and social moderates but what actual policies reinforce this. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.240.255.227 (talk) 07:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:New Democrats/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Last edited at 05:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 01:06, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Obama isn't a new democrat[edit]

He is the most leftist US president in Economics since the 1930's. He supports Gay Marriage. His policies toward Israel are the "coldest" ever. He does not believe in American Exceptionalism. The only reliable resource for being a 'new democrat' is that he said so (he also could have said 1+1 equals 3. so?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.138.244.21 (talk) 04:57, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Article defines New Democrats inception a bit late[edit]

I realize the origin of political movements is open to debate and that sources can say varying things. But, I think that the article has it a bit late when it defines the movement as starting after 1988 and Post-DLC. In actuality, the movement probably began earlier--around the time of Gary Hart's "new ideas" presidential run against Walter Mondale in the 1984 primaries. New Democrats, by proper definition, would be the generation of Democrats who grew up under the influence the pragmatic/technocratic (i.e. moderate) form of liberalism of John F. Kennedy, who entered politics after Watergate and started to become a recognizable political force in the 1980s. Gary Hart, Timothy Worth, and Bruce Babbit would be the Western part of it. Paul Tsongas (and possibly John Kerry) would be the Northern part. Then, the DLC, Bill Clinton, and Sam Nunn would represent the southern part. I saw one thread above where someone even went as far to advocate that RFK was the first New Democrat--that might be stretching things a bit. JFK and RFK were of an older generation--but they clearly were the precursors. However, I would say the movement began slightly before the DLC/1988--right around '84. The DLC and Bill Clinton played critical roles in taking what had already become an insurgent movement in the party and propelling the it to the forefront. We could see if there are sources to pull us a little closer to '84. Garagepunk66 (talk) 10:01, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

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