Talk:Operation Nordlicht (1942)

Recent edits

I've re-opened this page; I did this to replace some lost content, and to try and untangle it's edit history.
This page originally referred to a US operation in Iraq; this was redirected on on 28 Feb 2007 and the edit history for that misplaced when the page was moved on 1 Oct 2009.
It then acquired content about the two German operations from Operation Nordlicht in September 2009. The original format is here, and the edit history is here, from 30 September to 27 December 2009.
Much of this disappeared when the page was re-written to be about a Soviet offensive, and moved to Sinyavin Offensive (1942), in January 2010.
So I'm working back to connect to what's lost. Xyl 54 (talk) 18:48, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Move

This article was the subject of a request move (discussion here), which was closed today; the result was that the article should be at "Operation Nordlicht". As the article was originally at this title, and most of the edit history is here (see explanation), the article was transferred by re-instating the deleted text, and transferring the changes (about a dozen) made while the article was at the other title. In case anyone is wondering...Xyl 54 (talk) 23:53, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Article transferred, as discussed. Xyl 54 (talk) 23:41, 16 November 2011 (UTC) Xyl 54 (talk) 23:41, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

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Operation Northern Light → Operation Nordlicht – German name of the operation is predominantly used in English language (and other) literature when referring to the event and is as such highly recognizable - according naming guidelines given at Wikipedia:Article titles and at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) name should then be Operation Nordlicht. Also it is currently the main redirect to the actual article page so it is also used within wikipedia already.

It would also maintain uniformity within naming of German operations since for example other German operations of World War II in Northern Finland use German names - Operation Silberfuchs, Operation Renntier, Operation Polarfuchs (also Operation Birke but i just recently created the article so it is not valid for such comparison - due bias) Wanderer602 (talk) 05:55, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

• Comment: I’ve no objection in principle (you’re right, that generally is English usage) but there are a couple of points:

First, do you have any sources that use these terms? Or any sources at all? The article is pretty sparse with them.

Second, the edit history is pretty messed up. The content here now was copied from Operation Nordlicht (see above, and here) and most of the edit history is there. If it is moved that will be deleted. So if it agreed the title should be Nordlicht, it’d be better to reinstate the content there, and then re-do the changes that have happened here since ( there’s only about 5) and put in some attribution notes, rather than go through with the request move. Xyl 54 (talk) 16:36, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

The books that i do have at hand use term 'Nordlicht' when discussing it - especially the second operation which has nothing to do with Sinyavino Offensive (1942) - also though the Sinyavino Offensive is related to the first operation Nordlicht it is not the same. Nordlicht was German operation to capture Leningrad while Sinyavino Offensive was Soviet operation that started just before the German operation and made it impossible to go forward with it

Lunde, Henrik O. (2011). Finland's War of Choice: The Troubled German-Finnish Alliance in World War II. Newbury: Casemate Publishers. ISBN 978-1-61200-037-4.

Book names both events as Operation Nordlicht.

Ahto, Sampo (1980). Aseveljet vastakkain - Lapin sota 1944-1945 (in Finnish). Helsinki: Kirjayhtymä. ISBN 951-26-1726-9. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |trans_title= ignored (|trans-title= suggested) (help)

Book handles solely the Lapland war so it omits all but a passing mention of the first Operation Nordlicht (still uses the same term on both).

Granted i wouldn't mind turning splitting this into separate operations for 1942 and 1944 but since i presumed it had been decided to keep these two on the same page (after all even together they only amount to a stub) i thought move would be the proper way to handle it. - Wanderer602 (talk) 18:49, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

The sources look all right. There've been no other comments, so if you have no objection I'll go ahead and move, as I outlined. Xyl 54 (talk) 20:42, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

OK, done. Closed, and archived. Xyl 54 (talk) 23:41, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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These discussions are preserved on this page as an explanation of this titles page history. This account is mirrored at Talk:Operation Nordlicht, here. Xyl 54 (talk) 23:53, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Split apart

WP:SCOPE -- This article is about two different operations, the one in 1942 and the one from 1944. These should not be placed into one article, since they are two different topics with only the name being the same. 70.24.248.23 (talk) 01:28, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I have no problems with separating these two. - Wanderer602 (talk) 06:28, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

What's going on?

Would somebody care to explain what’s going on here?
I’ve just found a note on my talk page saying I’ve “carried out a cut and paste move” (which is patently not the case), and now find the pages have now all been moved around again.
When this move was proposed (above), I pointed out the edit history was messed up, and proposed a remedy to minimize the disruption. Now that has all been dismissed, and the pages jumbled up again.
Would somebody care to explain what’s been done and why? Xyl 54 (talk) 15:58, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

• It looks like that (in 2009?) someone started an article about the Operation Northern Light(s) in Iraq, and later someone else overwrote it with an article about the WWII German Operation Nordlicht, and later someone moved it to name Operation Nordlicht, carrying the early Iraq edits with it. I did this:-
  1. Delete Operation Nordlicht.
  2. Undelete its early (Iraq) edits.
  3. Move them to name Operation Northern Light, leaving the German edits still deleted at name Operation Nordlicht.
  4. Undelete Operation Nordlicht.
  5. Decide that the resulting page Operation Northern Light was a better article than the existing page Operation Northern Lights.
  6. Move Operation Northern Lights to Operation Northern Lights/version 2 and then Operation Northern Light to Operation Northern Lights.
  • Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:08, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
• See at Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen#Completed requests November 2011. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:00, 28 November 2011 (UTC)