Talk:Red snapper

Sushi red snapper.

I'm trying to figure out how to handle various fishes known as red snapper and mostly wanted to leave this link here for myself for future reference. There's a real mess with the species used in sushi; Japanese snapper claims that species is used, while Pagrus major says it is the species the Japanese common name "madai" is applied to. Meanwhile, izumidai redirects to northern red snapper, but is apparently a term for sushi-grade tilapia which is what most often appears as "red snapper" in Japanese restaurants in the US.

The broader issue is that red snapper refers to many fishes throughout the world. Lutjanus campechanus is the red snapper of the southeastern US, and the only species which the US FDA allows to be marketed as "red snapper" (but enforcement is non-existent). A couple species are known as red snapper on the Pacific Coast of North America, and it appears that snapper is exclusive to a single species in Hawaii and New Zealand. Pretty much anywhere else in the world (Indian Ocean, Caribbean/western Atlantic, western Pacific), "red snapper" is hopelessly ambiguous (though most frequently refers to Lutjanus species) Plantdrew (talk) 03:56, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

conversion

I converted this article from being a disambiguation page; it remains for it to be developed as a broad concept article or otherwise. This article was discussed in a couple sections or subsections at wt:DPL. The most pertinent regarding conversion was: (begin copy of text from wt:DPL, edited only to avoid pinging everyone again) ... Currently, some of us are working on converting dabs to SIAs and so I think we should set them up with whatever categories are proper, but i understand we're not working on clearing inbound "sialinks". Also, an expert might consider the numerous species sometimes called dace to be very different, but to a common reader they are all the same IMHO. --User:doncram 16:27, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I think new set index categories would need to be added by editing the template. Dace seems a good candidate, even if experts might be able to pick out differences in the small gray minnow-like fishes that wouldn't be obvious to others. But again this is a judgement call. For example with red snapper the geographic distribution of the species are very different and should allow even nonexperts to disambiguate (or at least to be hopeful that a resolution is possible by tagging with {{disambiguation needed}}. User:Bkonrad 16:46, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

In my view, animal common name SIAs should be categorized. I'd like to see them categorized by groups pertaining to WikiProjects (birds, insects, fishes, etc.) rather than just dumped into one big category for all animals. Ideally, that would be achieved with a parameter in {{Animal common name}}. Note that the generic {{Set index article}} template supports a parameter for "animalia" (redundant with the Animal common name template) and "snakes". There are some subcategories that must be manually added for some groups of animals. See Category:Animal common names for existing subcategories. Categorization under animal common names is kind of a mess at present. I'd like to see the categories distinguish between SIAs and articles about a common name. In my view, the SIAs would basically be lists with a focus on providing details needed for a layperson to differentiate the listed items. An article about a common name would have a fair amount of text and would discuss the properties that the named organisms have in common (rather than what makes them different); I suppose this is similar to the idea of a DABCONCEPT. Category:Fish common names is a mix of SIAs/list and articles at the moment (Hake is a good example of a common name article). If I had my way, I'd make Category:Set indices on fish common names as a subcategory of Fish common names, and leave the articles in the higher category, separate from set indices. I'm open to other thoughts and opionions

(ping Bkonrad). I need to put some more work into the Red snapper dab. The situation is not as clear cut as it appears on the dab page. There are dozens of remaining incoming links to red snapper (fish), and I've already done all I can to disambiguate them. "Red snapper (fish)" is an incomplete disambiguation, and should redirect to the dab page (or there should be a SIA/DABCONCEPT, or whatever). The fish currently listed on the dab pages are the ones where there is a clear candidate from the geographical context. Gulf Coast of the US? Lutjanus campechanus. Pacific coast of the US? Sebastes ruberrimus (or occasionally S. miniatus). New Zealand? Centroberyx affinis. There are another dozen or so fish species (mostly in the genus Lutjanus) that are referred to as red snapper and not listed on the dab page. In many parts of the world, there are multiple species of Lutjanus that are locally referred to as red snapper. Many of the remaining incoming links to red snapper (fish) have contexts of Southeast Asia, the southern Caribbean, or South America. If I get around to adding the other "red snappers" it will be apparent that geography doesn't always provide enough context to disambiguate. User:Plantdrew 17:58, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

(end copy of some text from wt:DPL)