Talk:Reentry Breakup Recorder

Source for first use: rentry of HTV

Here is a source on the first use of the REBR, on the Japanese HTV. [1] I don't have the time right now to put it into the article in {{full}} citation format. Cheers. N2e (talk) 18:30, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. That's not quite right. Looks like it was still projecting the re-entry burnup and that, as of the article time, the HTV had not yet burned up. Oh well, more articles will be out soon, I'm sure. N2e (talk) 18:32, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently, the thing managed to transmit back information, and is still transmitting from the ocean's surface now. 194.237.142.20 (talk) 19:12, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source? Put it in the article, or add the source here. N2e (talk) 20:16, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

news after first re-entry: - http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=33140 - http://www.aero.org/news/newsitems/032911-REBRsuccess.html (Builder of this REBR.)

regarding the history of the concept: - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6895314.html - http://www.aero.org/news/newsitems/rebr6-19-06.html jimswen (talk) 21:09, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

After the fact source, with NASA photos

Here is an after-the-fact source that documents the test mission on the HTV2, as well as provides a good photo (to scale) and a diagram: Spaceflight’s First Black Box Survives. It includes documentation that the REBR survived reentry and continued to broadcast for several hours AFTER splashdown while floating in the ocean, a task it was not designed to do, before it's batteries expired. Notably, since the photo and diagram are from NASA, it should be possible to get public domain photos for this article. N2e (talk) 02:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

photo? diagram? -- easily doable because both exist at NASA

This article would benefit greatly from a photo and a diagram of the device. Fortunately, both are given in the article link above, and both are from NASA. So it ought to be possible for someone facile in the fine arts of Wiki-images to add them to this article. N2e (talk) 02:19, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Changing the article nature

I was under impression that this page is about the specific mission of NASA and The Aerospace Corporation [2] but User:N2e is changing to a page on generic term. Please clarify about it, and include about i-Ball used for Kounotori 3. --Fukumoto (talk) 01:39, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should create a page (or rename this page to) spacecraft reentry breakup recorder for a generic term,^[1] and use the word "The Reentry Breakup Recorder (REBR)" for the mission by The Aerospace Corporation.^[2]

^ "Spacecraft reentry breakup recorder - Patent 6895314". Free Patents Online. 17 May 2005. Retrieved 29 March 2011.
^ http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/experiments/768.html

--Fukumoto (talk) 12:48, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point. Back when the article was created, in March of 2011, I too had thought that the first use of the REBR was the two REBRs being discussed for use in 2011 on two different ISS orbital reentry capsule destruction missions later that year: one on the JAXA HTV-2 spacecraft reentry in eary 2011 and one on the ESA ATV-2 spacecraft, later in 2011.

But now that we've found historical references to Reentry Breakup Recorders on earlier flights (e.g., the first ATV reentry in 2008, ATV-1, which is now cited in the article)—and per sources, the device was explicitly called an "REBR" at that time—I think we may be stuck with continuing to use the general name Reentry Breakup Recorder to describe an entire class of machines that are "Reentry Breakup Recorders", regardless of which manufacturer built the REBR, or really, which space program utilized the REBR to gather reentry data on a particular reentry (whether Japanese, Russian, USA, European, Chinese, or private). So I think this article name, and it's general scope as has been indicated now in the lede paragraph for an extended period of time, should remain the general one, and not become specific to any one manufacturer.

However, it would of course be in-scope for the Ball Aerospace i-Ball REBR would also be in scope, and could be mentioned in the article as long as verifiable sources with citations are provided. And it might be useful to add a section describing the specific "Aerospace Corporation" REBR that you are mentioning as well.

Following any of that (poetential) work on this article, it would be a totally different question to see if any specific model of REBR manufactured by any particular manufacturer was sufficiently notable to warrant a separate article. Cheers. N2e (talk) 13:27, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Which source(s) refers REBR in 2008? --Fukumoto (talk) 16:31, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. I just looked at the sources with the text and can find no mention of the REBR in those couple of sources for the 2008 ATV-1 mission. I will have to dig deeper, as I distinctly remember reading something that had the "REBR" term and the 2008 ATV-1 mission, and it was in the past few days while I was learning about the extensive image documentation of the ATV-1 reentry in 2008. But I don't have time to chase it down just now. I'll be back. N2e (talk) 04:36, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I searched on google for "reentry breakup recorder jules verne 2008" trying to find the source. I never found what I was looking for, but I did find this (from that search);

Google results page

On that results page, in one of the abstracts, there was this:

"reentry breakup analysis - Science.gov

www.science.gov/topicpages/r/reentry+breakup+analysis.html?

Reentry Breakup Recorder (REBR) tests a cost-effective system that rides a ... Re-entry Breakup of Jules Verne Automated Transfer Vehicle - NASA. Sep 29 ... 29, 2008, the controlled re-entry and subsequent breakup and fragmentation of the ..."

That looks good, and looks to support the connection between 2008 and REBR and Jules Verne. However, it is just a google abstract and Google shoves a lot of stuff in there dependent on the search criteria.

So I wonder if I saw something similar to this a few days ago: a Google abstract, and associated the REBR with the 2008 mission. If so, it appears to be bogus, because when one follows the link to the science.gov page, one does not find a single link on that list that has the REBR being used on the 2008 mission.

Therefore, I'm declaring a self-screwup. Since I cannot locate a verifiable source for an REBR being used on the 2008 ATV-1/Jules Verne mission, I am removing the text from the article that makes this claim.

There may have been some data recording and telemetry on that mission, but I did not locate a source for it in 25 minutes of looking today.

Cheers. N2e (talk) 13:36, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Spacecraft reentry breakup recorder - Patent 6895314". Free Patents Online. 17 May 2005. Retrieved 29 March 2011.

[2] ttp://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/experiments/768.html

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