Talk:Roast (comedy)

A note

I don't understand why being publically insulted by all your friends is considered an honor. I'm sure this facet of roasting must confuse other people, as well. Perhaps this subject needs to be elaborated on in the article.

24.126.174.180 10:39, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed--70.67.6.8 04:02, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree as well Freeflux 18:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

This article needs a major clean-up, as it stands it reads mainly as original research. Placement in the popular culture of (presumably) the USA may well help, I am not aware of this usage outside of this narrow field Markb 20:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The 'roast' is described quite well here however, the assumption is that the person being 'roasted' is not a hopeless tight-ass and they understand that love is best when mixed with a dash of sarcasm! How deep is the cave where people live who do not understand this?

I agree with the above poster. Perhaps it's a New York thing, or a thing with its origins in New York culture, but it's now pretty standard behavior in the U.S. I think. You "bust the chops" (i.e. playfully insult) of people you like, love, and respect. The "roasts" started out, and still continue, at the Friair's Club in NYC, and were carried to California and the Beverly Hills club by performers who were either from the New York area or had worked here a lot. It's really a part of American show business culture. Alinnyc 22:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I must say that I don't understand the concept of Roasting at all. The article does indeed need a complete re-write and sounds an awful lot like original research. The problem is, the type of person who thinks that an insult is a compliment is not exactly the best person to identify whether or not an article is up to quality or not. 76.168.46.83 06:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not 'thinking that an insult is a compliment'. As mentioned in some of the televised roasts, the idea is 'good natured ribbing'. Something that often takes place between friends. Anyone who has a citable source for common sense like this, please chip in. Or anyone who has "Roast of the Town", the book on the subject available at Amazon...

Isn't User:76.168.46.83's expression "the type of person who thinks..." begging the question? Roasts definitely exist -- they're a verifiable phenomenon and weren't made up to confound genteel Wikipedians. Surely you could find a videotape of some celebrity roast and see for yourself.

As for understanding it... who knows? My theory is that it's a kind of hazing ritual, a running of the gauntlet, for middle aged men belonging to societies of 1st-3rd generation American immigrants. They have to shed their old world customs to fully belong to the new world, to be "roasted" in the oven till they 're done, "forsaking all others" (as in others' cultures) as it were. --AC 19:15, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

The first time I heard of that "phenomenon" over here in germany was in TV-News about the controversy at Whoopi Goldbergs Roast in the Friars Club, as is referenced in her WP:Article: Quote: "In 1993, Goldberg was briefly involved with Ted Danson, who was married at the time and caring for his wife, who had survived a stroke. There was controversy following a comedy routine at a Friars Club roast that was performed in blackface. The fact that Goldberg herself had written the script was often overlooked." -80.135.146.211 (talk) 13:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

If you just come upon this article, it probably is a little bit hard to understand. But I had to look it up after seeing a video of Norm MacDonald's Genius Roast Of Bob Saget, and had absolutely no clue was going on. While the article may be a bit short, once you actually see roasting, it all falls into place. --Cynebeald (talk) 10:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

While I agree with those who say we need to be told WHY this is considered an honour and an event, my eyes were most drawn to the list of those who have been recently "honoured". While I can see the fun in the Rat Pack publicly ribbing each other, some of the nonentities listed in the article are laughable. Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin - great! But none apart from William Shatner (in my opinion, of course) of the recent roastees are anything like iconic. Indeed, many of them I'd never even heard of. Guv2006 (talk) 15:39, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Channel 4?

Channel 4 (In the UK) have been billing a series of comedy roasts for 04.07.10, 05.07.10, 06.07.10 (using the American date system). If this is true this should be added - I believe the roastees are Bruce Forsyth (sp?), Sharon Osbourne and Chris Tarrant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tory88 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Removed

Removed Trey Parker from the list of roasts. He has not been roasted by Comedy Central, or anyone for that matter. Beerduck (talk) 16:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Link no longer valid

Link nr. 2 (Sandoval, Greg. "Video of Presidential roast attracts big Web audience". Cnet News.com. Retrieved 2006-05-08.) leads to a html containing only an 1x1 Gif-File. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.37.171.41 (talk) 12:28, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

there was a norwegian version as well

there is more information on norwegian wikipedia which is accessed through the language links.2A02:FE0:C100:1:1531:B302:E6D7:BB73 (talk) 23:12, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

It Must Be An American Thing

Do NOT get this at all. I mean, WTF? These things are lethal. We're not talking about a little good-natured teasing, we're talking about poison served as champagne. What the hell is wrong with Americans? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.61.67.237 (talk) 17:28, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Humor is subjective. We can't all "get" every kind of joke. However, I see from below that there is some ceremony involved, humorously, with "roastmaster" being equivalent to "toastmaster", I guess, so I can see what they're getting at even if I find the event itself cringeworthy. 2A00:23C8:8F9F:4801:895E:348F:847C:D5C8 (talk) 15:45, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

"Roasts" of involuntary subjects, i.e. insults

There is a long tradition of comedy roasts, with standard elements such as the roastee, roastmaster, panel of guests and so on. There is also a tradition of "insult comedy" - comedians or would-be comedians insulting audience members, celebrities, or passers-by in order to get a laugh. Roasts can certainly be seen as a subset of insult comedy. But what seems to be new is people referring to random insults as "roasts", including a YouTube comedian (whom one editor recently added information about to this article) who likes to go around insulting random people, which some of his fans apparently describe as "roasts". Perhaps insulting random people on the street fits some definition of the word "roast", but it's not the definition that this article covers. I believe this article covers (or should cover) only insults targeted at someone who has given explicit or at least perceived consent for the mockery; everything else is simply insult comedy. Korny O'Near (talk) 23:40, 22 February 2021 (UTC):

@Korny O'Near, Your whole explanation for its removal is redundant, as it seems to me like you believe an article titled Roast (comedy) should not include the actual other sourced internet culture uses and definitions as well which can be considered comedy to the perceiver . The term roasting and the urban uses of it derives from those comedy roasts themselves as The participants on those celebrity roasts are subjected to insulting jokes just like a reddit user would do another reddit user on r/RoastMe on reddit so there's no difference except it is sourced. And the comedy genre of insult comedy is way too broad of a type of comedy to just refer to what roasting actually is. Insult comedy can include anything from direct racist, sexist offensive jokes to a insulting SNL skit of Donald Trump. And it also seems you don't understand the whole roasting comedy spur of insult comedy itself. When someone is "roasted", They are usually angrily or severely ridiculed about their appearance, actions, or words they say in person usually. And if you don't think this good enough general information to include, Merriam-Webster defines the more common blanket roasting definition as " to criticize someone harshly : to yell at or criticize someone in an angry and severe way." Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/give%20someone%20a%20roasting. And it doesn't serve wikipedia's purpose of to inform the not keen by not acknowledging it's widely media covered internet culture or write it in a more general definite format. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 20:39, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm aware that the word "roast" can mean a variety of things, including "insult". However, this article is about a specific concept of a roast in comedy. As even the BBC article you cited notes, in a roast, "one factor is crucial: consent". The article itself points out that, though some people call going around and insulting strangers "roasting", it does not fit the definition of a comedy roast. (The RoastMe subreddit, on the other hand, does involve consent, so it probably could be included in this article, in my opinion.) Korny O'Near (talk) 16:39, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@User:Korny O'Near, You know people can sometimes still be roasted involuntarily or not in a joking, good-faithed way or in a mean spirited way to bring someone down, as defined and described by multiple mainstream news sources like ABC and Washington post. See these sources: 1, 2. Roasting can be used in forms of cyberbullying and bullying when done "involuntarily" or unwanted by the who is getting roasted. And many considered some internet roasting comedy or humour, That's why that is mentioned and sooner you understand that the sooner this article fits the larger definition of the term for readers. And for note even when done on someone who wants it voluntarily, it is still considered insults as well to the involuntary ones. But I understand your viewpoint with plainpotatoess and I'll remove it for now. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 16:55, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Again, the subreddit RoastMe and the hashtag #roastme involve consent (it's right there in the name). Insulting people out of the blue may fit some definitions of the word "roasting", but it doesn't fit the subject of this article. Korny O'Near (talk) 17:07, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@User:Korny O'Near, I don't think you understand my point I'm trying to make here. Roasting as defined by multiple reliable news sources, can be done involuntarily which can lead to bullying or cyberbullying with pre-teens, adolescents and young adults, depending on the case. I'm not just talking about that reddit but the entire phenomenon of internet and communal roasting as a whole. And there's no set in stone way this article is intended to be, as there's hasn't been a clear RFC about how the article should be presented and formatted. I personally think this article should be a general definition of what roasting is and include its sourced internet and urban culture and the heavily publicized, predating comedy roasts as these subjects are closely related and would not work in separate articles. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 17:25, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

This is just an issue of homonyms - multiple meanings for the same word. Some people do call random insults "roasting", but it's not a comedy roast, as noted in that BBC article. To take an example, you could find a lot of reliable sources that define "roasting" as baking things in an oven, but I'm sure you'd agree that that definition does not belong here. Korny O'Near (talk) 17:42, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@Korny O'Near, While it may be Homonymous in some cases, the internet and urban communal subset of roasting humour is very closely associated with the comedic roasting on television with how they both generally work. Both use insults and mockery as their form to amuse the wider audience or in more cases of internet roasting, anger or upset the roasted person as defined well in the lead. The comedy roasts on TV are throwing well clevered insults in form of jokes just like internet and communal roasting. internet and communal roasting got its name and some aspects from the predating comedy roasts from the decades back. And your rationale behind discrediting the numerous reliable secondary sources and primary sources is invalid as pretty much everybody knows that bake roasting is different from a televised roasts and can be easily disambiguated. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 17:56, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Consent is the difference, as noted by the BBC. If you are right, though, and the two types of "roasting" are really the same, then what's the difference between this article and insult comedy? Korny O'Near (talk) 18:10, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@Korny O'Near, And that's why I said that it may be Homonymous in some cases in where's there's no consent and a person is unwantedly roasted. And I'm glad you asked how roasting is different than insult comedy because I'm about to tell you why. Insult comedy is differs from Roasting because insult comedy is a broader more comprehensive larger parent of roasting humour. Often insult comedy can include many things that cannot be considered roasting, like for example, an SNL skit that mocks a certain celebrity or a comedian making sexist and racial stereotypes. Roasting is often either kind-hearted or hurtful insults and ridicule delivered in the form of quirky jokes and comparisons like instead of a stand-up comedian saying that a X celebrity is fat, he would compare he/she to whale in a delivered punchline or say she would probably get stuck in her bathtub for being so fat. Next time you watch a comedic roast, analyze how the roasters usually give out their insults in a clever joke during a punchline to generate more laughter just like how reddit users would do on r/RoastMe for instance. To really understand how a roasting works, look at this video that shows people "roasting" each other with formatted jokes [1]. It's like on a article about citrus, you give all the info about oranges when oranges has enough information and sources to have its own article as a subarticle. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 18:42, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Why is an SNL skit making fun of a celebrity not considered roasting? Do you have a source for that? Actually, do you have sources for any of these opinions? Korny O'Near (talk) 18:48, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@Korny O'Near, I don't know anybody that would consider those mocking, insulting SNL skits roasting but probably would consider it insult comedy. And just going off of the video example I gave you, you can kinda understand how social and communal roasting is performed by some people. And I do have a source, see this article on insult comedy 101 that states multiple times that insult comedy heavily utilizes major offensive sexist and stereotypical jokes (which is usually not really considered roasting) for offensive and shock factor of the audience. Link: [2], ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 19:03, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure what that article is supposed to prove, but in any case it's not a reliable source so it's not relevant. Please see the guideline on original research. Korny O'Near (talk) 19:27, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@Korny O'Near, I'm not trying to prove anything to you because you're not giving real counter argument but rather questions to my sourced opinions. And what makes the source I provided not a reliable source to you? Because it proves that what i'm saying is usually correct and that multiple websites define what insult comedy is and how multiple aspects of it are not what "roasting" is but instead offensive edgy comedy? I have provided multiple sources to back up my claims while you have repeatedly have used the same one. And don't give me that original research excuse because I actually gave sources pretty much to every claim I made and I can continue to give even more. Since we're not going anywhere with this discussion at this point, I'm leaving to go spend my time elsewhere ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 19:40, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Please see WP:RS on what constitutes reliable sources, per Wikipedia; "The Laugh Button" is not it, as far as I can tell. What are these multiple sources you've pointed to that show the difference between insult comedy and your definition of "roasting"? I don't think "The Laugh Button" post does, and neither do the news articles like the ABC News one. Korny O'Near (talk) 20:02, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@Korny O'Near, I suggest you should send this matter to the Comedy talk page, because using this discussion as a scapegoat to continue to revert the article to your view of how it should be instead of actually following WP:BOLD,revert,discuss cycle and trying to really lie out of your mouth and say ABC news is not a reliable source. Consent in generalized roasting is very redundant and petty in your argument of hedging the two as these two still heavilly overlap still. And after doing a couple hours research your question, Insult comedy is barely defined during the research I did, It's never significantly aligned or compare multiple times to both platforms of roasting. Here's a source from live science which defines Don Rickles's insult comedy as breaking the "social norms" by " The success of Rickles' insult comedy may be explained by a humor theory called benign violation, which describes when a social norm is overturned, but in a way that is non threatening..." Source:[3], And I found another source from The Hill that defines insult comedy as Trump and others going against political correctness which it commonly is intended to go against nowadays, Source:[4]. And even if we move this good sourced information about internet roasting to insult comedy, It will heavily confuse editors who are looking for the definition and examples of internet/urban roasting. And i'll deflect the question back to you..what are reliable sources other than that repetitive BBC source you keep using,say that internet roasting actually completely aligns with insult comedy and the general definition of roasting? I'll wait... ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk)

Please remain civil. Of course ABC News is a reliable source - my point is that the article you found does nothing to back up your assertions. Neither do these two new articles. What exactly do you think they prove - that "insult comedy" means something more than insults plus comedy? If so, I don't think either one proves that at all.

Maybe this will be more persuasive: Wikipedia already has a lot of articles about random insults - besides insult comedy, there's also insult, taunting, rudeness, bullying, cyberbullying, etc. There's only one one article, though, on the concept of formal roasts, with protocol and an audience and so forth: this one. And if you have your way, there won't even be this one, since it will become synonymous with all the others. Does that make sense to you as a good outcome? Korny O'Near (talk) 19:34, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Korny O'Near, The thing is buddy, This article should define a general term of roasting as a blanket definition for both the televised comedy roasts and the verifiable sourced also popular internet roast trend while including all the information on comedy roasts and the reliably sourced internet and communal roasts. I'm trying to remain as WP:Cool but It just doesn't sit well with me that good sourced information very overlapping is being repeatedly removed. Both of these fit under the same type of humour as they share tons of aligning qualities. both format insults into jokes. Both use their insults to amuse the audience. Both types of roasting can be done in good-natured voluntarily. non-televised roasting and televised comedic roasting both have their rudeness, that's what makes them edgy and their own unique form of humour. And both form are insults so that is redundant. And roasting is not entirely bullying and cyberbullying, you mistook my statements. I said that school and online roasting can sometimes develop into those two, but doesn't always turn into that. And here's the kicker, let's say a curious non-social media savvy person is looking up information internet roasting, the similar version of roasting, they can find the generalized definition that can refer to both terms that can inform them, that's the point of this encyclopedia. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 20:59, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

If these two things are so similar, how do you explain this mishmash of an intro you created for the article:

“ Roasting is a form of humor in which a specific individual is voluntarily or involuntarily, subjected to insulting jokes and ridicule by one or more people, usually intended to amuse a wider audience or to humiliate and upset the roasted individual. Roasting can be often used as a form of cyberbullying or bullying amongst pre-teens and teens who are involuntarily roasted. Roasting can also be organized into public events that are intended to honor a specific individual in a unique way. ”

So... roasting is a way to humiliate and/or honor someone. Even from these three sentences, it's obvious that there's an attempt here to shoehorn very different things into the same article.

By the way, I have no idea what "good sourced information very overlapping" means. Korny O'Near (talk) 22:13, 26 February 2021 (UTC)