Talk:SNCF Logistics

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subsidiaries

I temporarily removed some smaller companies from the lead section :

Naviland Cargo, Modalohr Express, Novatrans, Districhrono, Ecorail, Froidcombi, Rouch Intermodal et Sefergie

Listed here to be checked properly later - I think they are newer, and relatively insignificant - article body may need updating.Oranjblud (talk) 00:17, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, most of those companies are quite old. --L.Willms (talk) 18:48, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As to the subsidiary AKIEM: In July 2023, the website of Akiem states that it is wholly owned by CDPQ, "a global investment group." CDPQ should be a Québec (Canadian) Pension Plan fund. That implies, the leasing and maintenance company Akiem is not belonging to the SNCF Logistics anymore?? ChJn (talk) 07:08, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, "SNCF Geodis" is not an enterprise, and especially not an EPIC

The changes introduced by User:Oranjblud(Talk) in his/her change of 02:02, 8 August 2012‎ introduces very wrong statements; the most important are indicated in the title of this section.

SNCF Geodis is a branch of the SNCF Group, and these entities exist, as I explained in my previous revision and in Talk:VFLI, as a collection of various enterprises, of which at least one element is a part of Établissement public à caractère industriel et commercial (EPIC) SNCF (I hadn't found the EPIC article on en.wikipedia, so I just copied the text from fr.wikipedia).

SNCF is an EPIC, but everything else isn't, but private companies. And the five branches are not enterprises, but groups of enterprises which, as I had explained, consist of an EPIC side and a private company side. SNCF Geodis is led by Pierre Blayau, who is the longstanding PDG of Geodis, from the time when SNCF had only a minority stake in that company. Pierre Blayau was then also made a member of the SNCF Executive Council.

The branches or divisions of Groupe SNCF are just conceptual entities, which act in a given area of commercial/industrial activity and have a common leadership, but this leadership is not based on one single point of ownership. That's why I introduced the two views of the "SNCF Group": the view of industrial logic, and the view of capital ownership. These are not 100% congruent, and can't be, because there is always the EPIC part in each branch. For the private company part, these are grouped in holding companies per industrial group: Transport et Logistique Partenaires for SNCF Geodis, Voyages France Europe Partenaires for "SNCF Voyages", "Kuvera Development" for SNCF Proximités -- the other two I do not yet know. These holdings are subsidiaries of SNCF Participations, which is in turn held directly by SNCF and where SNCF groups all her subsidiaries with some exceptions (e.g. not the real estate group SNCF Habitat). I do not think that there need to be separate articles on these sub-holding companies, but that they can be covered by a section in the article on the relevant division of Groupe SNCF.

Now I don't know if I should simply revert or try and make sense based on what "Oranjblud" wrote.
--L.Willms (talk) 06:08, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Example: SNCF Geodis is led by the PDF of Geodis, which is a private company. Geodis is a direct subsidiary of the holding SNCF Participations, whereas all other (at least most) private companies within SNCF Geodis are subsidiaries of the holding Transport et Logistique Partenaires, which is a subsidiary of SNCF Participations. SNCF Participations is directly owned by the EPIC SNCF, which in turn is owned by the state (I believe thru the Agency for state participations). Fret SNCF, the EPIC part of SNCF Geodis is not owned by any of these holdings, but is a component part of the EPIC SNCF. I guess (but don't know) that Pierre Blayau's right to give orders to departements of Fret SNCF is based on him being the member of the SNCF Executive Committee responsible for transport and logistique. These facts should not be blurred. Cheerio, L.Willms (talk) 06:41, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry - my mistake I misread your statement ( the branch SNCF Geodis consists of an EPIC side (state owned company) and a filiales (private companies) side) when re-writing, and made a mess - I have removed that incorrect assertation that SNCF Geodis is an EPIC..

It might be simpler to add the information to the infobox - there are three relevant fields Template:Infobox company

Type - this is the legal form of the company eg - LLC, GmbH, Ltd. SA, etc
Owner - interpret this as the legal owner -in this case the holding company.
Parent - the parent - doesn't necessarily have to have a solid legal basis - but usually will. Whatever the company asserts is the next organisation up in the company tree.

According to http://www.geodis.fr/legal-informations-@/index.jspz?id=232 the "type" is a 'public limited company', in french http://www.geodis.fr/geodis-mentions-legales-@/index.jspz?id=233 - A société anonym.

I think the parent is SNCF with SNCF Geodis as one of the five branches eg http://www.sncf.com/fr/portrait-du-groupe/un-groupe-de-service.

The immediate owner is Transport et Logistique Partenaires as stated above - but this should be traced up to the ultimate owner - is this the French state?Oranjblud (talk) 20:54, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Transport combiné or intermodal transport, ERMEWA

The various enterprises of combined transport were copied from the fr.wikipedia article on SNCF Geodis. The treatment of ERMEWA in the en.wikipedia article on SNCF Geodis does not present the current reality. France Wagons is simply a division of "ERMEWA Group", but is also a holding company of ERMEWA. I will untangle those relationships later. --L.Willms (talk) 06:08, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article may be out of date, but before editing please check the full text - the statements given in SNCF_Geodis#Divisional_structure were correct as of 2010, and it states As of 2010 SNCF Geodis .." -you altered 'France Wagons' and 'Transengrais' to appear as sub-groups of ERMEWA -I'm not sure, but don't think that was true in 2010..Oranjblud (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a reference to the merge of 'FranceWagons' and 'Ermewa'. As far as I know 'Transengrais' is still a separate entity. I don't have any info on the shareholding of the companies.Oranjblud (talk) 21:18, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

VFLI

VFLI (see the article VFLI) is not a "short haul freight" operator; two thirds of VFLI's business is long distance freight; short haul is today a minor part of VFLI's business. I should really simply revert the article because of all the serious errors introduced by User Oranjblud. --L.Willms (talk) 10:53, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

fixed that.Oranjblud (talk) 20:58, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus emerged that, rather than enacting this move, it would be best to create a separate article for Geodis. (non-admin closure) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:01, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SNCF Logistics → Geodis – As of January 2020, SNCF has reorganized and placed Geodis as its top-level logistics subsidiary.[1] The current implication of this article is that SNCF no longer performs logistics services at all, but Geodis is still a substantial player in the business, and is large enough to sponsor a major American stadium in Geodis Park. In order to maintain history of the logistics business at SNCF, the page should be renamed and moved to Geodis and be reformatted as a page about Geodis as a subsidiary of SNCF. CheckeredYeti (talk) 02:51, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, it appears that Geodis should be its own article, as the current SNCF Logistics article also covers the history of several other subsidiaries, notably Captrain France. 162 etc. (talk) 17:54, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Support this, make a separate article for both.Ortizesp (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.