Talk:SS Dzhurma

The name of Djurma/Dzhurma

The Джурма can be correctly transcribed into Djurma or Dzhurma depending upon which protocol is employed. The Russians and others transcribed it into "Djurma" during WWII and that is how the name should be pronunciated. I am not a linguistical expert in any language, but I suppose it turns back to Old Russian where the English name "John" is/was transcribed to "Джон", which would be "Dzhon" the other way back from the Russian transcription. I am absolutely sure about "Djurma" as it was painted like that on the very ship in question below the Cyrillic name of the ship (post war photo from the shipping company, where a high resolution scan is in my possession).

However, the transcription protocols changed after WWII and the current US Library of Congress system, by far the most widely used, generates "Dzhurma" from the Cyrillic letters instead of the older "Djurma." This spelling is used far more widely than the spelling derived from the older transcription protocols, even if contemporary photos show that older transcription. (In fact, some internal military and CIA documents from the 1940s use the name "Dyurma" for this ship.)

By the way, the Djurma did not end her days in the Dalstroy fleet but with the fishing industry in Vladivostok Region where it was scrapped in 1967 (ref. Fesco's index of all ships in the Far Eastern Shipping Company). I'll think I have the exact year for the transfer from Dalstroy to the fishing fleet and I will return with that later.

A former prisoner was shown the wreck of the Djurma and he broke down in tears. This was shown on Russian television. However, the bay where the wreck should be was far smaller than the Djurma and it should therefore have nothing to do with reality. The ship was used as scrap metal and nothing at all is left of it today. Ref. to Fesco's historian (I meet with him in July 2006 at the Fesco headquarter in Vladivostok).

As for the Djurma 2 it is right is was built in Poland but it was not Polish. It was used by FESCO from 1968 to 1999 according to FESCO's own shipping index. It was 4,846 gross tonnage and therefore much smaller than the 6,908 gross tonnage for the first Djurma (according to the FESCO index).

Jens Alstrup (http://gulag.eu) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.184.46.196 (talk) 23:21, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

• • Is better to change the name of the article to SS Djurma due to this ship had Emglish name Djurma during all her life (to see the attached in the article photos. Only from 1975 the Soviet-USA rules about translation of the name changed the name ДЖУРМА translation to DZHURMA and it it why this ship named sometimes in the articles as DZHURMA (it is not correct as it was not during the ship's life. WHich rules? I sent to WIkipedia one time Soviet-American agreement about this rules to explane whe the ship Nezhin was named before 1975 as Negin (to see my article SS Nezhin#English names of this ship) as nobody was beleave in this and after the mentioned my explanation still in my article, but the photo was deleted due to official document. In this article SS Nezhin#English names of this ship directly I wrote about translation of Russian character Ж. I beleave, that the next ship Djurma (1968) had English name Djurma until 1975 and was renamed to Dzhurma in 1975. And if write the article about the next ship we had to write SS DZHURMA (1968)? but about this ship SS Djurma (1921). BRGDS Грищук ЮН (talk) 09:51, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

• • The same situation about the company name DALSTROI. The name DALSRTOI was used before 1975, but after 1975 this name has to be translated as DALSTROY (as per above mentioned rules). Is better to write DALSTROI, as this company was deleted in 1957, but the ENglish article named Dalstroy. The the ship DULSROI has to be translated only as DALSTROI as it was blow up before 1975. BRGDS Грищук ЮН (talk) 09:59, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

• • I have to pay your attention that the companies names, people names, ship's name, e.t.c. can be have double translation if they were alife before and after 1975 due to Saviet-American agreement abou translation. But if they were used only before 1975, - only old translation and can be explanation in the article why like this. In case the were used after 1975? - only new translation has to be used. BRGDS Грищук ЮН (talk) 09:59, 10 January 2017 (UTC)