Talk:Sad Wings of Destiny/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Sparklism (talk · contribs) 07:24, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting article, I'll take this on. Seems you've been waiting a while - I'll post my comments here over the next couple of days. Thanks :) — sparklism ^hey! 07:24, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Lead[edit]

Would readers find it useful to link riff in the second paragraph?
- Done. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You might want to explain who 'Halford' is, since this is the first time he's been mentioned.
- Spelled it out and linked. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that the word "powerful" is needed here: would simply '[Rob] Halford's vocals' suffice?
- Dropped "powerful". Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How 'long' is "Victim of Changes"? Could you be more specific?
- Reworded to "eight-minute". Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are those semicolons necessary either side of "extended leads"? Shouldn't these just be commas? And what is and extended lead anyway?
- Dropped semicolons. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You could wikilink Gull Records here
- Done. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think the second half of the final paragraph could do with some work, as it seems to drift away from the subject and the timeframes seem a little confusing. I'll try to think about how this could be improved if you don't get to it first.
- Looking again at this, I think it just needed some clarification - I've gone ahead and done it, hope that's OK. — sparklism ^hey! 07:51, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Background[edit]

Co-founder Al Atkins named the band, wanting one similar to Black Sabbath's. This doesn't quite read correctly to me. How about something along the lines of "Co-founder Al Atkins chose the band's name, wanting a similar sounding name to Black Sabbath...."?
- I see the problem. Reworded. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - The whole issue of naming is misleading. See the Judas Priest Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Priest under History>Origins. The way that THIS page is written it makes in sound like Bruno was a cofounder and bassist of the band that we now know as Judas Priest, when in actuality it is Ian Hill.
    - See below. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:38, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You might want to link 'riffing' again (if you chose to do it earlier)
- Done. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"complexity of the arrangements" - which arrangements are these?
- These ones. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 11:05, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are "Dreamer Deceiver" & "Deceiver" actually a 'pair'? I'm not quite sure what that term means in this context - a pair of songs?
- Well, "Dreamer Deceiver" segues into "Deceiver"—not just on the album, but live, too. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
on The Old Grey Whistle Test on BBC Two the year before the songs appeared on Sad Wings of Destiny → "on BBC Two's The Old Grey Whistle Test in 1975"?
- I think I'd rather keep the wording—the point is they played the songs on TV long before they appeared on an album. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Fair enough, but I still think there are too many uses of 'on' - how about a slight tweak to prevent this: "on BBC Two's The Old Grey Whistle Test"? — sparklism ^hey! 07:10, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - Okay, done. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 11:05, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"joked that fans should burn their copies of the album" - of this album, or their debut? Any idea why he said that?
- Clarified. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Production[edit]

Does the source (Popoff) actually describe the cover piece as "dark"? Does it mean this dark or this dark?
- Hmm ... Popoff describes it as "glorious" and "ebulliant". I've dropped "dark". Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"depicting a struggling, grounded angel and surrounded by flames and wearing a devil's three-pronged cross" - I think there's one too many 'and's in there
- Fixed. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Recording was done → "Recording took place"? — sparklism ^hey! 07:11, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- This one is still outstanding — sparklism ^hey! 07:52, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Now done. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 23:05, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't the Typically Tropical song simply called "Barbados"? You might want to link that, too. — sparklism ^hey! 07:12, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- You're right. Fixed. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 11:05, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - I don't think this has been fixed yet. — sparklism ^hey! 07:47, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - I must have forgotten to click save or something. Now fixed. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 23:05, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Songs[edit]

I see there was some debate on the talk page about running order. It seems that in this section you've got Side B before Side A - I'm not sure if this is important or not, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.
- I'd like to see this solved, but I know of no RS that clears it up. You'll see both running orders on CDs, and the original LP had both (the sleeve gave one running order, the disc another). Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For "Epitaph", are we talking about this Queen, or this one? — sparklism ^hey! 07:15, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah, I see that Queen is linked later on (for "The Ripper"). I think it should just be linked in the first instance. — sparklism

^hey! 07:20, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

- I've gone ahead and fixed this. — sparklism ^hey! 06:37, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks! Somehow I missed this comment. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 06:43, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For "Victim of Changes", we've got Black Sabbath-heavy riffing, melodic ballad, and extended leads. The 'Sabbath-heavy' bit doesn't quite scan right, and we're back to 'extended leads' again. Are these extended lead guitar solos? — sparklism ^hey! 07:24, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Some solos, but also twin-lead arrangements, particularly in the intro. "Extended lead" is a fairly common way of phrasing particularly long, prominent guitar-work. What do you suggest for "Sabbath-heavy"? Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 11:05, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'd think of this an an 'extended lead' (maybe it's a UK thing). Maybe "Black Sabbath-style heavy riffing"? And "melodic ballad" doesn't quite work here properly either (though I know what you mean) - how about something like "melodic ballad sections"? — sparklism ^hey! 11:22, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - I suspect you're right that "extension lead" may be a Britishism (I'm only fmailiar with "extension cord"). Of course, this article's in BrEng. I've reworded to "extended guitar leads", "a melodic ballad section". I'm not sure about "Black Sabbath-style"—the intended meaning was "heavy as Black Sabbath", rather than "in the style of Black Sabbath". Let me think on this. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 11:37, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Release, reception and legacy[edit]

heavy metal-averse Rolling Stone - Really? Does the cited source state that Rolling Stone is 'averse' to heavy metal? Might be just better to say that RS gave a positive review.
- They had a reputation for slagging metal bands at the time, but that time's long since past, and I doubt it's important to the article—I've removed it. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 06:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've done some copy-editing here - hope that's OK.
- Yeah, it's great, thanks! Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 06:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Images & media[edit]

I've checked, and all images seem OK. I'm not sure that the Tenniel image adds anything to the article, particularly since there are already plenty of images here (and I see that a previous editor agreed with me) but I don't think that affects the GA. The media clip is short and of appropriate quality (though it does contain a notice on the template about FUR)
- There is a FUR, but someone has to validate it by adding "|image has rationale=yes" to the licence template (as the uploader, I can't do that myself). Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 06:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personnel[edit]

There are no sources in this section - could the album sleeve notes be used?
- I added a cite to AllMusic. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Great! I fixed a typo there. — sparklism ^hey! 07:26, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Under "Background" it states "Co-founding bassist Brian "Bruno" Steppenhill chose the band's name, wanting one similar to Black Sabbath's." WTF...I always thought that Ian Hill was a cofounder and original bass player, as noted here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Hill Perhaps Brian "Bruno" Steppenhill is Ian's birth name? A google search on Brian "Bruno" Steppenhill reveals little, other than the passage under discussion. Any ideas out there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.68.216.159 (talk) 18:58, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- No—Stapenhill was a member of the band Atkins co-founded in 1969, and Stapenhill named it. That band broke up in 1970, and Atkins found and joined a band called Freight that had Hill in it later that year. This band (that Hill co-founded) took on the name Judas Priest (which Stapenhill came up with). Whether hill was a co-founder depends on whether you consider the 1969 Preist or Freight to be the "original band". Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:37, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks for all your work here. I still think that the following three lines explain it better than anything I've read on THIS page (consider revising, huh?) "Judas Priest were formed in 1969 in industrial West Bromwich, in the Black Country, by vocalist Al Atkins and bassist Brian "Bruno" Stapenhill, with John Perry on guitar and John "Fezza" Partridge on drums. Perry soon died in a road accident, and amongst the replacements the band auditioned were future Judas Priest guitarist Kenny "K. K." Downing; at the time, they turned him down in favour of 17-year-old multi-instrumentalist Ernest Chataway, who had played with Birmingham band Black Sabbath when they were still called Earth. Stapenhill came up with the name Judas Priest from Bob Dylan's song "The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest" on the album John Wesley Harding." - The preceding passage was from the main Judas Priest page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Priest — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.68.216.159 (talk) 19:41, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    - Yeah, I know—I wrote that. But why would we want that extra detail here? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:51, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Summary[edit]

As I said above, this is a really interesting article. This is just my first read through, and there's obviously still a bit of work to be done, but nothing major that I can see right now. I'll add further commentary above as I get to study it in more detail, but I'm sure it won't be long before this is at GA. Good work! — sparklism ^hey! 20:06, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for sparing the time! Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- This is shaping up quite nicely. You'll see I've added a few more comments above, and there's likely to be more to come. Thanks! — sparklism ^hey! 10:37, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - All of my concerns have been addressed, so I'm happy to pass this as a GA. Great work Curly Turkey, another GA to add to your impressive list! :) — sparklism ^hey! 07:26, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]