Talk:Saints Cyril and Methodius

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Misconception about "Greekness" of the Byzance[edit]

"Byzantine Greek" may refer only to the period after 12th century and not to the times of Cyril and Methodius. The second reason to avoid the expression “Greek” would be because they probably were Slavs and NOT “Greek”. The third reason is that the expression “Greek" was pejorative at exactly that time and may reflect the Catholic reaction to their mission and the introduction of the Slave language in xenophobic Catholic West and Central Europe. This is a strong reason why the expression “Greek” should be avoided. Only “Byzantine” would be appropriate. Please correct.Buridan2001 (talk) 13:41, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

RESPONSE by Helena Dadaj. Nonsense, Byzantium was a Greek culture prior to the 12th century. In fact, one could argue that it grew more and more Slavic after the 12th, but not entirely. The probability that Cyril and Methodius they were Slavs is entirely speculative and no source is provided. In the interest of academic integrity, we can conclude that this is a false assumption. The fact that you think Slav refers to "slave" shows that you have no understanding of Slavic history whatsoever. Slav does not mean slave, it means "The Word" as in "People of the Same Words" or "tongue." Why would you think Slavs were slaves when they settled and conquered half of Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.213.24.41 (talk) 20:54, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Response to RESPONSE: Nonsense and total ignorance and naivety ("slav means the word"?!?). In the Old Church Slavonic Grammar By Horace Gray Lunt, Mouton de Gruyter, 2001, p. 3., the author states that Cyril and Methodius were probably Macedonian. Greece did not exist in the 9th century. The crusaders started calling the Byzantines "Greek" pejoratively, when the Eastern Roman Empire was reduced in its size in the 12th century and later. 92.128.127.214 (talk) 19:45, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Warning!Their origin is unknown[edit]

Please, stop to add "Greek", "Bulgarian" or "Slavic" origin in the beginning of article. Quote from the book "The Byzantine world' by D. Georgiev, 2004, Prosveta, page N114: There are 3 hypotheses about the origin of Cyril and Methodius: 1)Greek - it is being established as the hypothesis that the two brothers have greek origin. 2)Bulgarian - it is being established as the pieces of work for the apocryphal literature and the more late documents where it is claimed that they are Bulgarians. 3)Mixed - they have a Bulgarian mother and a Greek father. None of the three hypotheses is confirmed. We have no evidences about their origin. The serious historians do not use this question in their works. Every theories which considered brothers as Greek, Bulgarian or Macedonian origin are biased and in the majority of cases can be with fantastic character or effect of political propaganda. Similar theories can not be viewed as historically correct opinions.--Stolichanin (talk) 19:05, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Depends on how you look on the matter. The brothers had two parents, but the sources confirm the nationality of only one of them: their father was of Byzantine Greek origin, who served in high positions in the Byzantine Empire and the local theme of Macedonia. However, I am not sure how the unknown nationality of their mother, (some sources say she was Bulgarian, other sources claim she was Serbian but there is no real concensus on her origins) automatically makes the nationality of the brothers themselves be in question. In There are many theories, but we can't ignore the fact that there is a consensus among the academic people that Cyril and Methodius where Byzantine Greeks in every aspect of their life: 1) They were born as Byzantine Greek citizens, 2) they were given Byzantine Greek birthnames, 3) Their mother tongue was the Byzantine Greek language, 4) were born in the historically Greek city of Thessaloniki, although this has little relevance, but it relates to their birthplace and 5) were members of the Greek Orthodox Church. That said, the sources mentioning of their mother being of Slavic origin, combined with theories whether their family already had Greek roots, or just were hellenized (or not), prior to their birthdate, haven't reached a concensus in the academaic community and remain unclear for the most part. --SilentResident (talk) 09:02, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Stolichanin, I have noticed the removal of over 8 sources from the page that have been added by other Wikipedia users. The removal of so many sources, and doing edits without citing any sources from your part, as well as the lack of a good and verified explanation on regards to their removal, forced me to revert your edits. Until sources and explanations are provided for these changes of yours, at least here in the Talk page, is better to not remove sourced information by other people just based on your personal POVs. If can you please explain in a detailed manner (and with sources if possible) your changes, that could be great. I do not dispute your information, but I couldn't recommend just removing so many sources like that and without citing any new sources backing these changes. Thank you. --SilentResident (talk) 15:39, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
The authors do not indicate any evidence of their origin. The term "Greeks" does not exist in the Middle Ages. "Byzantine" and "Greek" are two different things. The Byzantine can be Armenian, Syrian, Georgian, etc. The national idea was born in 18th - 19th century.--Stolichanin (talk) 17:54, 1 August 2015 (UTC)