Talk:Salman the Persian/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled Comments

I've added the section regarding Islam and slavery because it is relevent to Salman. The Biography is a fabrication done by later Islamic scholars because of obvious mistakes such as regarding Zorastrianism as a polytheistic religion and reference to worship of fire rather than considering it sacred. Salman had to be very ignorant of his original faith if he wrote such a biography this is unlikely as he was ordained as a Guradian of the fire. Given Salman's military knowledge he would have aided the early Muslims in capturing Iranian land and taking people as slaves this is not POV it is historical fact and therefore Iranian nationalists consider him as a traitor so I've added that. You removed my added section based on reference so I added WIKI's own section on Islam and slavery.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthfinder999 (talk • contribs) 20:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

None of what you said is sourced and it is original research. --Nepaheshgar 02:38, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Who added all this sex and strippers stuff??

"No more re-writes??" Are you guys for real?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.83.175.180 (talk) 07:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Ahura Mazda?

The original text here said that Salman at first worshipped "Fire". Elsewhere I've seen that he was described as a "Mazdaki". A worshipper of Ahura Mazda, the god of the Persian zoroastrians? --Tony Sidaway|Talk 16:29, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Al-Farsi

Why is he named "the Persian"? Should we rename "Muhammad al-Bukhari" to "Muhammad from Bukhara", or rename this back to "Salman al-Farsi"?--Striver 17:12, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Shi'ite book Abu Hurayra?

Those Shi'ites completely reject Abu Huraira r.a.'s book! That is our hadith book. And they don't like Ayesha r.a. Umar99 18:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Someone needs to stop reverting it to include this segment, it is absolutely false. The Shi'a reject Abu Huraira r.a.

salman the persian

His name IN ENGLISH is Salman the Persian, most of the English texts I have read on him refer to him as such therefore it is not a “translation” of his name or a recent move, it is the way he was always referred to by most, if not all, English writers. Given that this is English Wikipedia it should reflect the English name. Either the title or the opening paragraph, if not both, should reflect this. For now I leave the title as what it is but change the intro. In my opinion the pages’ title should change as well but we can discuss this later.Gol 05:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree to move this page. I guess in the past it was salman the persian .--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 10:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I am moving the page back, the move was unilateral and "Salman the Persian" is the English name which is more common in academia [1]. --Mardavich 09:53, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Guys this article can seriously use some improvement.. --alidoostzadeh 03:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I took a big bit out

... because of it's non encyclopedic tone, and the fact that it's copied from another copyrighted source (it even still contains the copyright notice!). It may contain useful info, so I paste it below. flammifer^talk 04:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Allah bless Salman, themost wonderful and kind, he is most importantly, the 3rd Grandsheik of the Naqshbandi Haqqani Tariqa

This following extract is from Naqshbandi.org The Naqshbandi Sufi Way History and Guidebook of the Saints of the Golden Chain© by Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani Copyright © 1995 Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani. All rights reserved.

   Salman al-Farisi
   May Allah Be Well Pleased With Him

   "My heart has become able to wear all forms:
   A pasture for gazelles, a monastery for monks,
   A temple for idols, the Ka`ba of the pilgrims,
   The tablets of Torah, the Book of Qur'an.
   I profess the religion of Love.
   Whatever direction its mount may take,
   Love is my Religion and my Belief."
   Ibn `Arabi, Tarjuman al-ashwaq.

Salman al-Farisi is known as the Imam, the Flag of Flags, the Inheritor of Islam, the Wise Judge, the Knowledgeable Scholar, and One of the House of the Prophet . These were all titles the Prophet gave him. He stood fast in the face of extreme difficulties and hardships to carry the Light of Lights and to spread the secrets of hearts to lift people from darkness to light. He was a noble companion of the Prophet . He reported sixty of his sayings.

He came from a highly respected Zoroastrian family from a town near Ispahan. One day while passing by a church, he was attracted by the voices of men praying. Drawn by their worship, he ventured in and found it better than the religion of his upbringing. On learning that the religion originated in Syria, he left home, against his father's wishes, went to Syria and associated himself with a succession of Christian anchorites. He came to know from them the coming of the last Prophet and the signs accompanying his advent. He then traveled to Hijaz where he was seized, sold into slavery, and taken to Madina, where he eventually met the Prophet . When he found in the Prophet the fulfillment of all the signs of which he had been informed by his Christian teachers, he affirmed the testification of faith - Shahada. Servitude prevented Salman from being at the battles of Badr and Uhud. The Apostle helped him gain his release from slavery by planting with his own hand three hundred palm trees and giving him a large piece of gold. Once a free man he took part in every subsequent battle with the Prophet .

In Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, we find the following in Salman's account to the Prophet of his journey in search of the true religion:

'"`Asim ibn `Umar ibn Qatada said that he was told that Salman the Persian told the Prophet that his master in 'Ammuriya told him to go to a certain place in Syria where there was a man who lived between two thickets. Every year as he used to go from one to the other, the sick used to stand in his way and everyone he prayed for was healed. He said, 'Ask him about this religion which you seek, for he can tell you of it.' So I went on until I came to the place I had been told of, and I found that people had gathered there with their sick until he came out to them that night passing from one thicket to the other. The people came to him with their sick and everyone he prayed for was healed. They prevented me from getting to him so that I could not approach him until he entered the thicket he was making for, but I took hold of his shoulder. He asked me who I was as he turned to me and I said, 'God have mercy on you, tell me about the Hanifiya, the religion of Abraham.' He replied, 'You are asking about something men do not inquire of today; the time has come near when a prophet will be sent with this religion from the people of the haram. Go to him, for he will bring you to it.' Then he went into the thicket. The Prophet said to Salman, 'If you have told me the truth, you met Jesus the son of Mary.'"'

In one of the Prophet's battles called al-Ahzab or al-Khandaq Salman advised the Prophet to dig trenches around Madinah in defense of the city, a suggestion which the Prophet happily accepted. He then went ahead and helped the digging with his own hands. During this excavation, Salman struck upon a rock which he was unable to break. The Prophet took an axe and hit it. The first strike brought forth a spark. He then hit it a second time and brought forth a second spark. He then struck for the third time and brought forth a third spark. He then asked Salman , " O Salman, did you see those sparks?" Salman replied, "Yes, O Prophet, indeed I did." The Prophet said, "The first spark gave me a vision in which Allah has opened Yemen for me. With the second spark, Allah opened Sham and al-Maghreb (the West). And with the third one, Allah opened for me the East."

Salman reported that the Prophet said: "Nothing but supplication averts the decree, and nothing but righteousness increases life," and "Your Lord is munificent and generous, and is ashamed to turn away empty the hands of a servant when he raises them to him." Tirmidhi transmitted them.

At-Tabari recounts that in the year 16 A.H. the Muslim army turned to the Persian front. In order to confront the Persian king at one point the Muslim army found itself on the opposite bank of the great Tigris River. The commander of the army, Sa`d Ibn Abi Waqqas, following a dream, ordered the entire army to plunge into the rushing river. Many people were afraid and hung back. Sa`d, with Salman by his side, prayed first: "May Allah grant us victory and defeat His enemy." Then Salman prayed: "Islam generates good fortune. By Allah, crossing rivers has become as easy for the Muslims as crossing deserts. By Him in whose hand lies Salman's soul, may the soldiers emerge from the water in the same numbers in which they entered it." Sa`d and Salman then plunged into the Tigris. It is reported that the river was covered with horses and men. The horses swam and when they tired the river floor seemed to rise up and support them until they regained their breath. To some it seemed that the horses rode effortlessly on the waves. They emerged on the other bank, as Salman had prayed, having lost nothing from their equipment but one tin cup, and no one having drowned.

They went on to take the Persian capital. Salman acted as spokesman and said to the conquered Persians: "I have the same origin as you. I shall be compassionate toward you. You have three options. You may embrace Islam, then you will be our brethren and you will have the same privileges and obligations as we. Or you may pay the Jizyah tax and we will govern you fairly. Or we will declare war on you." The Persians, having witnessed the miraculous crossing of the Muslim army, accepted the second alternative.

Salman Al-Farsi was eventually appointed governor of that region. He was the commander of 30,000 Muslim troops. Yet, he was very humble. He lived from his own manual labor. He did not own a house, but instead rested under the shade of trees. He used to say that he was surprised to observe so many people spending all their life for the lower world, without a thought for the inevitable death which will take them from the world one day.

Salman was a very strict and just man. Among some spoils which were distributed one day was cloth out of which each companion had one piece of clothing cut. One day `Umar got up to speak and said: "Lower your voices so that I may hear you." He was wearing two pieces of that cloth. Salman said, "By God, we will not hear you, because you prefer yourself to your people." "How is that?" asked Umar. He said: "You are wearing two pieces of cloth and everyone else is wearing only one." Umar called out: "O Abdullah!" No one answered him. He said again, "O Abdullah ibn Umar!" Abdullah, his son called out: "At your service!" Umar said, "I ask you by God, don't you say that the second piece is yours?" Abdullah said "Yes." Salman said: "Now we shall hear you."

At night Salman would begin to pray. If he got tired, he would start making dhikr by tongue. When his tongue would get tired, he would contemplate and meditate on Allah's power and greatness in creation. He would then say to himself, "O my ego, you took your rest, now get up and pray." Then he would make dhikr again, then meditate, and so forth all night long.

Bukhai relates two hadiths which show the Prophet's consideration for Salman:

'Abu Huraira relates: While we were sitting with the Holy Prophet , surat al-Jumu`a was revealed to him. When the Prophet recited the verse, "And He (Allah) has sent him (Muhammad) also to others (than the Arabs)..." [62:3] I said, "Who are they, O Allah's Apostle?" The Prophet did not reply till I repeated my question thrice. At that time Salman al-Farisi was with us. Allah's Apostle put his hand on Salman, saying: "If faith were at ath-Thurayya (the Pleiades, very distant stars), even then some men from these people (i.e. Persians) would attain it."'

'Abu Juhayfa relates: The Prophet made a bond of brotherhood between Salman and Abu ad-Darda al-Ansari . Salman paid a visit to Abu ad-Darda' and found Um ad-Darda' (his wife) dressed in shabby clothes. He asked her why she was in that state. She said, "Your brother Abu ad-Darda' is not interested in the luxuries of this world." In the meantime Abu ad-Darda' came and prepared a meal for Salman. Salman requested Abu ad-Darda' to eat with him, but Abu ad-Darda' said, "I am fasting." Salman said, "I am not going to eat unless you eat." So Abu ad-Darda' ate with Salman. When it was night and a part of the night has passed, Abu ad-Darda' got up (to offer the night prayer), but Salman told him to sleep and Abu ad-Darda slept. After some time Abu ad-Darda' again got up but Salman told him to sleep. When it was the last hours of the night, Salman told him to get up then, and both of them offered the prayer. Salman told Abu ad-Darda', "Your Lord has a right on you, your soul has a right on you, and your family has a right on you. Abu ad-Darda' came to the Prophet and narrated the whole story. The Prophet said, "Salman has spoken the truth."'

He died in 33 A.H. during the reign of `Uthman . He passed his Secret on to Abu Bakr's grandson, Imam Abu `Abdur Rahman Qassim ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr as-Siddiq .

MAY ALLAH ALWAYS BE DELIGHTED WITH OUR MASTER SALMAN AL FARSI FOR THE SAKE OF HIS BELOVED, MUHAMMAD (PEACE AND BLESSINGS UPON HIM ETERNALLY)

I am always sorry when I read pages such as this one that seem to adhere to heresay and not fact. I would have thought that most students of history would respect the problem that it is almost impossible for anyone to know the exacts when conversing or writing about history. Salman was Persian and the fact that the 'Persian' is asigned to him bears an important footnote in history which cannot and must be ignored. The Persians were far better versed in religion than any other civilization, more so than the Greeks, the Romans and the Hindus. Although it may be hard to proove that the Persians were the inventors of monotheism it is without dispute that they were certainly the first people to have had a book towards monotheism: The Avesta. I mention this because I believe the importance of Persian contribution towards Islam is vital and important, and even more important at a time when few were well versed in religion and the ideas of monotheism Salaman the Persian lent many ideas and concepts of Persian belief into the Islamic system. Salman The Persian played a very major role in the development and perhaps even the conception of Islam, and this is why the importance of him being Persian must be highlighted at all times. We must not forget to always view history in context and not simply by content, as most content may be unliable. If one looks closely at the context of the birth of Islam then Salman the Persian's role in this becomes clearer. Most students of history tend to study Islam after its conception and declaration which is harmfull to its study. The study of any concept or event must be at the begining, and at the begining the story of Islam is very different from what appears in the Koran. The major players in Islam other than Mohammad himself at the time when he declared himself a prophet were very few and far between. However, the presence of Salman The Persian changes the face of Islam to a large extent. This page does not fully describe the man and his motives, but describes Salman The Persian after his so called embrace of Islam. The stories about his past are not correct and should really be told by the Persians and by no other national. I say this because the Persian mind, as indeed any mind, does not operate in the same fashion as other people. Just as Americans are not driven by the same motives as the Turkish people or the Russians driven by the same motives as the Brazilians. To understand Salman The Persian and his motives, which is what makes the man, one needs to describe the Persia (Iran) of his time. The politics of Iran during his life time was not the same as any other state nearby. Persia was an empire and therefore its attitude and motives were very different from that of any other nation in the region. I reject these fable telling styles of Salman The Persian simply because that is exactly what they are; fables. Salman The Persian was a man clearly driven by political ambition as all men are. I would be very interested to hear of any man who aims for the stars and yet settles for the gutter. Let me explain myself on this issue. Todays politics, and I mean this about religion too, has not changed that much compared to a thousand years ago. Men are still ambitious and they will fight for glory and honor, and also for greed, creed and money. There are many stories surrounding Salman The Persian, but what is unavoidable is that he was driven by deep motive, not to convert the Persians but to seek revenge. When Lenin went to Russia to lead the Bolsheviks was his intention to free Russia and the Russians or was it to seek revenge on a family that took the life of his older talented brother? Did Salman The Persian really join this handfull of merry men, whose declaratios could not have been more holy or truthful than that of the Christians, simply because of what they were preaching, or was there an under-current present within him that saw an opportunity that could help him to achieve his real aim; his ulterior motive? Asking these questions of history is a must that can never be put aside. For years we learnt that the reason why the British went to war with Hitler was because he occupied Poland, when in fact we are learning the real reason was becasue the rich and powerful in Britain were backing him, as well as people like Henry Form and Mr. Thomson of IBM and the likes. Religious history is often difficult to confront with the truth as its main sacrifice is doing so is belief, and belief is very difficult to change without war. That is why every religion change has had to go to war to achieve its purpose. It does this becasue it knows that the new system of belief is as flawed as the previous one and in order to replace one flaw with another you need war. Choas is replaced with choas, never with order.

I find his presence in Islamic and Persian history very interesting and I emphasise him being Persian. There is wonderful reference by Betrand Russell in his "History of Western Philosophy" about the Persians and their views towards religion and Islam. It is important to study each man not simply by looking at his actions, but by studying his mind. The actions of Hitler can be viewed from a military point of view, but should we not study the man also? His actions were a result of his thinking, not visa versa. Actions can be misleading, espacially depending on the angle they are viewed from, therefore they should not be the only source of study and questioning. I cannot know what Salman The Persian had said in any meeting or gathering as I have no faith or knowledge about the scribe who recorded it. I doubt whether in those days minutes were kept about such things. If you can recollect every event and discourse that took place last month between yourself and a store keeper and rewrite it word for word then arguments and fables such as the one above may be valid or even true. But since CNN, with cameras, with microphones, with recording devices and many reporters can get a simple story wrong I have little faith in the intellectual abillites and writing powers of the many ignorent masses of a thousand years ago whom for all we know had no idea what was going on. Just as corporations today can spin every single bit of information I am sure during Salman The Persian's time information and events were also spun. After all, doesn't religion bring MONEY & POWER also?

63.225.86.148 (talk) 11:30, 4 January 2008 (UTC)behzad.

Untitled Comments

I just wanted to let yo know that the information on Salman Fars is Fradulent on wikipedia. I have original proof written in Farsi/Tajiki about his biography. I had already edited the page, but yout took off my edit. I really do not think its fair. The book i have is not in english but is very old. I demand that the correct information about him being processed. See my firend, Salman was a zorastrian, he scaped from his temple in balkh. Then he went to Saudi Arabia, He knew Arabic, So he became a translator there. Think about it. Who better than him to translate a religion to persian, where the persians trusted him so much. I want youto think about it, Mohammed was smart, now if you were mohammed and you wanted to promote your religion, wouldnt you need a translator and a translator with a previous knowledge of a background religion (zorast) with lots of scientific support from it. yeah you would. now what hurts is that all of us got killed, tortured, and mass murdered by islam, and now we can even face the truth. Salman knew the weakpoints of zorasts, think about it, deeply. Peace was our weakpoint, peace. ask anyone who is 50 years of age or older from afghanistan of iran, they know, cause they read the correct history backhome. the problem is that these books were burnt, all our books so that the truth doesnt come out. Thank yo very much for yout consideration (Motlagh (talk) 14:29, 28 January 2009 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Motlagh (talk • contribs) 14:12, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Untitled Comment

Let me add something here that I read 25 years ago and have read over and over. Salman himself knew whats going on when he scaped from the zorasts. He used to write everything mohammed said to him, but often he tested the prophet by asking about the last lines he said. Most of teh time, Mohammed could not even remember what he said or said completely irrelevant things. this clearly proves that Mohammed was faking the whole thing. There was nothing intelligent about what he said except all the things salman added himself in Quran from the knowledge he had from zorastrianism. He was not an arab, he was a Parsi, a Zorasts, a person who believed in human rights. All Islam has is a slight reflection of the knowledge taken from Zorastrianism written by Salman's books. Yet they burnt all Salman's evidences, books, notes, ... If he was a muslim, why was it that non of the persians or Parsi speakings were counted as human beings unless they became muslim, and even then they were second class muslims. They had to become muslims or otherwise they would face death. I suggest to all the people that even if your muslim or think you are, think twice, cause hypocrasy is the biggest sin in islam, the biggest sin commited by your own fake Prophet Mohammed who banned adoption, yet married his son's wife who was 13 years old. Did you see mohammed hear all the things he said in islam, all the "good" things he did, did you see the angles whisper stuff into mohammed's ear, no, cause you werent there. So believeing this islam thing is not easy, only easy for hypocrits and non educated ones. [[ Ketabe Salmane Parsi,written by Sasan Noori, published by Sherkate Haghayegh 1813, library of Balkh Khorasan, ch 11]]

I read in a book 25 years ago that salam often tested the prophet for credibility by asking him about the revayat (the Sora that came from god to mohammed's ear) only hours after mohammed had mentioned them. All the times, the prophet could not remember what the last "SORE" was. Therefore Salman wrote alot of things that he believed as a zorasts in Quran. This proves that Mohamemd was faking the whole thing. I have lots of books in farsi/parsi that proves this fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Motlagh (talk • contribs) 19:01, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

You need to cite sources. Ogress _smash! 19:39, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

What he states is a conspiracy theory and not supported by academic sources. I think he needs to familiarize himsef with WP:OR.--Nepaheshgar (talk) 22:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Salman Rushdie's TSV

Does not mention Salman Rushdie's reference and character of the 'Satanic Verses'(thought maybe it should).--207.249.136.254 (talk) 20:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

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Who is the idiot that made a mistake and posted a bunch of "Salman rah27X23.gif (918 bytes)" throughout this wiki page. I understand the time and effort put into maintaining this site but I only wish that people who have no frigging idea about what there doing be banned from posting anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditc (talk • contribs) 07:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)