Talk:Slayer/Archive 2

Image change

Sorry to change the image again. I am doing this because I just hate that picture of Tom Araya's face all covered in blood. That seems like a scary picture to me. Hope you don't mind that I restored the image (I uploaded) back. Let me know if you disagree. Mr. Metal Head 21:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Changing something just because you don't like it isn't very cool. I think that the bloody picture just SCREAMS "Slayer." VelvetKevorkian 07:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Autobiographical

Hi all, This is my first time reading this article and while I might have missed something or there is some other arrangement in place, but the History section seems entirely lifted verbatim from the band's website. http://www.slayer.net/site.php#about I put the autobiographical tag on.

Because the section was basically written by Slayer or its representatives or whatever, it can be deemed autobiographical and inappropriate for Wikipedia.

Someone needs to rewrite that section. It is great if someone wants to include background on the band, but the section cant be simply copied from the band's website. Otherwise, the section is simply the band writing about themselves. Once that section gets cleaned up, yank the tag. co94 August 6, 2006.

NO!! It is actually the other way around: the releatively new slayer.net revision lifted an older version of the history section of this article (before the references got added you can even see the not functional "[3]" in the first paragraph that indecated a link to slaytanic.com's quotes section. I don't think it falls under "autobiographical and inappropriate for wikipedia" and has to be rewritten, just because the article or section - licensed under the GFDL - is used outside of wikipedia even if it is used on official website of a band that the wikipedia article is about (without stating it has been taken from here). -87.123.197.194 12:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

That's cool. If the website is actually copying Wikipedia then the section isnt autobiographical.

If that's the case, however, then the section seems POV. Look at it this way, the band essentially uses it to describe themselves on their website--and surely they would use something flattering about themselves! In all honesty, it reads a bit like an advertisement. The words, "materpiece," and, "classic," are used to describe Slayer's music, for example. Contrastingly, there are weaker comments like, "fans were disappointed," at low points. That's inherently POV. The criticism is weak but the praise is substantial. I am fairly certain that when Slayer first appeared there must have been critics who panned them. No mention or examples at all are described though. It couldnt be all wine and roses from Day 1. I know in retrospect, this album is a genre classic, but it must have had some people who initially disliked it. When I read this section, it seems like I am reading a bio of a band about to be inducted into the Metal Hall of Fame or whatever.

Consider the paragraph on South of Heaven. It seems the criticism is muted. Record companies likely say, "fans were disappointed," if an album doesnt sell well. Fans likely say, "That album stunk." Two different descriptions of the same album but the POV i clear. Rather than simply writing that fans were disappointed with SOH, I think it would be better to state the facts and let the reader decide. I.e., "SoH was Slayer's least popular album selling XXXXX copies," or similar. Furthermore, there seems some subjectivity in the facts described in the article. The article states that SNM, for example, was essential in helping the band earn respect in the metal community but doesnt describe how. Did the band get noticed by record companies? Did other musicians take note of them? Were they sought after by club owners? Did their early shows sell out while other bands had trouble attracting audiences? Stuff like that.

In every paragraph practically, there is something complimentary about an album but very little criticism. SNM gave Slayer respect. HTC produced classic sounds. HA wa the most progressive musically. RIB is a masterpiece. SOH was praised by critics and while it wasnt well-received by fans it still produced a few fan favorites. See what I mean?

The section was obviously written by a strong fan and someone very familiar with Slayer but I think they are trying to be a bit too complimentary to the band. To me, it is well-written but POV in favor of the band. co94 August 7, 2006.

Where is the discography?

I realize there is a History section, but can someone implement a discography section, a la Metallica. SamuraiFez 09:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

As suggested under See also Slayer discography 87.123.210.19 09:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

"Nu metal, punk rock, hardcore punk"...?

Slayer may have been influenced by those styles at some points in their career, but never to the point that they could be considered a part of those genres.

Well they have had releases of that stuff. Slayer's last three LP's have had strong Nu Metal influences in them and their Punk Hardcore Cover album was well, a punk hardcore album. These genres need to be added to show what there style is altogether. When comparing it to there older stuff it sounds radically different in some ways. It is basically a rehashed version of Reign in Blood. Tom's singing is definatly much poorer in quality, he just yells through most of the songs. And if you pay close enough attention he seems to almost do some sorta rap as well. Although it is a very light touch of that, it is very akin to bands in the Nu Metal genre. The playing is also getting less thrashy and more into a play until someones ears bleeds metalcore fashion. The guitar playing of Kerry King has gone over the years from a sort of chaotic frenzy of playing to now a emphasis on mood. The mood being trying to get the sound to be as demonic and evil sounding as possible, although its debaitable if they even come close to that goal. They only are trying to create the new younger angst crowd of kids interested with that sorta sound. Nu Metal bands are usually aimed at young angry kids that want some sorta pop/metal sound right? Well hasnt slayer just changed its sound around in that direction?

I really have to question if you've actually even listened to the new album Christ Illusion for example. It is nowhere near nu-metal as you assert above. Slayer existed long before nu-metal, and their current output sounds more like their old stuff than anywhere close to nu-metal. Korn and Slipknot are considered nu-metal. Slayer sounds nothing like them. Their punk hardcore album was COVERS, not their material. Please quit adding these nonsense categories....it's obvious no one else agrees with you because it keeps being taken out (and not just by me). Dennypayne 17:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Dude I have listened to their new album and it blows beyond anything ive ever heard in thrash. It blows the sort of shit only heard from Slipknot or Korn. And there are alot of Posers out there thatll assert that Slayer is still thrash, Metallica has gone back to their roots with St. Anger, that Mariyln Manson is Death Metal, and that Trivium is the next Metallica. That's the reason why so many keep changing it. I've been listening to Slayer since 85 and they have definatly changed style in a very Nu sort of way. If Metallica can sound Nu-ish, why then cannot it not be possible for Slayer to have done the same. Theres so many wannabes out there that claim that slayer is still sick and has never sold out. then why the fuck did they have a exclusive deal with hot topic? Youd have to be a total moron to overlook that. Why am i including that in on this discussion? because Nu Metal is really just music created by corportations or sellouts that just want to attract a very materialistic crowd that will by whatever they are told to. In case you have a hearing problem, its obvious that tom cant sing anymore and that kerry is just as bad as ever playing guitar. Keeping that in mind, it seems like there best chance to still make some cash is to make shitty songs that only the prepubescant fanboys and posers will want to buy. omg, kerry king said fuck religion and this and that so he must be cool. what the fuck is wrong with u stupid ass kids? hes just playing you up on that to help sell his music! And yes I think because they did those covers they should have that info on there to help people understand their backround and major influences. And would you other dicks stop trying to say ooooh its death metal, omg its deathrash, jesus we have to catorgorize it as groove metal. we have nothing to back up these claims at all except for the fact we have no clue as to what we are talking about. Slayer was thrash from a little after its creation (they played a ton of punk covers and other songs when they first started jamming) until 94 with divine intervention. After that they took a very Nu Metalish approach. If you still need me to better help you understand the differences of what Nu and Thrash Metals are (which you can ever argue that Nu Metal isn't even metal at all), than just ask. Ill be more than happy to educate your naive little understanding of metal.

And whoever keeps deleting this, your pathetic, u aren't even man enough to have a rebuttal to my argument. Let me just ask, are you to stupid to come up with a response or are you just to much of a little pussy to exchange words with me? Moreover, don't try to change the subject into something else in a rebuttal either, just attack me head-on in this argument, that is if you can. Ratman28 13:21, 21 November 2006

First of all,if your trying to convince people that teenagers' opinions are wrong,you're certainly not doing a good job of it,not with all that bad spelling and grammar.Second of all,I have never(NEVER!)heard marilyn manson been called death metal,if anything he is industrial metal.Marilyn Manson isn't even close to death metal,although there guitars are distorted,their lead vocalist doesn't death growl,nor do they have really brutal or violent lyrics.And,before you go attack Nu Metal,remember that Anthrax practically created it,with Scott Ian being a Public Enemy fan and Anthrax mixing one of their songs with one of Public Enemy's songs,wich was what practically lead to Nu Metal,I am not a fan of Nu Metal,but your verbally attacking something you obviously do not understand,wich is a form of prejudice.Last of all,don't ever say that all Slayer's songs were punk covers until Divine Intervention,what are you intoxicated?Raining blood is a thrash metal classic.4.235.186.252 (talk) 03:20, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Deathrash?

Could we consider changing their genre to deathrash?

They have elements of death metal (ie grinding guitars, chaotic solos, and morbid lyrics), but they are also thrash based in that they have roots in early metal and hardcore punk.

What in the blue HELL is "deathrash?" Slayer is thrash, just like they've always been. VelvetKevorkian 07:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

81/82

The article says that Slayer are often incorrectly said to have formed in 1981, because they were formed in 1982. However, this page is still in the category "1981 establishments". Adamravenscroft 16:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Weasel Words

The section in the article where it describes how Slayer does not have any Nazi ties and such seems to subliminally promote them. Especially the "it must be noted" parts. I'm not saying that I disagree with the content, just maybe subtley change the wording so you are being objective and not advocating the band in the article

To do

I added a to-do list to this talk page. Add anything that needs to be done to the list and i will do my best, to find out how to edit it check Wikipedia:To-do list. Also i think once we re-written some parts and added the sources we could go for good article, peer review and then hopefully FA. M3tal H3ad 12:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA

This is a quick failing of Slayer based on problems that can be viewed without before reading, there may be additional problems to these. Please review Wikipedia:What is a good article? renominate once these problems are addressed.

• Images lack fair use rationale.
• Too much trivia.
• In-line citations not formatted properly. The <ref> should be inserted directly after the period. Should read like so.[1]
• Lead could be longer.

--SeizureDog 07:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply. The issues have been addressed, i will have another read of 'what is a GA'. M3tal H3ad 08:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

These issues have not been addressed, though, and should not have been resubmitted to GA so quickly. There are still no fair use rationales for the unfree images, and there is too much trivia. If you want to keep the "information" that is currently in the trivia section then it would be best to create new sections, such as cultural imapct. As it is, it's just a messy assortment of unencycopedic snippets. I'm failing the article, and strongly advise that you wait a while before resubmitting. Also, I suggest that you go through the peer review process before resubmitting.
However, it does look like a comprehensive article that could be worthy of GA status.The JPS^{talk to me} 11:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Things to be added

Slayer originally started out as a cover band, covering Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. This needs to be included I'm not sure where though. Any opinions?

Also the 'big four' is reffered to a lot, heres some links [1], [2], [3], [4] M3tal H3ad 02:20, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

It was now added back to the lead, with a different reference. Michaelas10 (Talk) 10:34, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

The big four paragraph seems a bit short. The 4 bands, have a HUGE influence on thrash and basically created it, i think this should be mentioned, I'm not sure how to word it though. If that little bit of information is added, the infobox wont cut into the history which makes it look disorganized M3tal H3ad 05:03, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking something like this: Slayer are often credited as one of the "Big Four" of thrash metal, along with Metallica, Anthrax, and Megadeth.[1] Their music has influenced many thrash and death metal bands[2], Reign in blood is widely considered one of the most influential thrash metal albums ever, alongside Master of puppets.[3] In 2006 Slayer were inducted into the Kerrang! hall of fame.[4] M3tal H3ad 06:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Request for a song

Could someone perhaps upload a sample of Seasons on the abyss or South of Heaven preferably Seasons, as the 1990s section is the only part without a sample and it will give the article 'balance'. I'm not familiar with the ogg? format. Thankyou M3tal H3ad 10:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Wait, south of heaven would be nice as it mentions their style changed and with a sample we can show that. M3tal H3ad 03:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

History expansion

Hi everyone, I began work on expanding the history section, to assist in getting this one elevated. Using bio's from rockdetector.com, allmusic.com, and an interview with Brian Slagel for references, I found quite a bit of info, so hopefully we can get this one to be really comprehensive, and one day FA status.

I will also upload some 30 second samples, hopefully today, if i have time. I think that at least every "single" released (if they even have any? not sure..) should have a sound sample, as well as one or more songs per album. Anyway, I look forward to seeing F*CKIN' SLAYER!!!!1! on the front page one day! \m/ Skeletor2112 12:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Good work on getting Megadeth A class, but I don't think this article should also be flooded with non-significant samples, which will probably be against criteria 8 in WP:FUC. I think it's enough to have about three examples to demonstrate their music style. Michaelas10 (Talk) 15:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we should flood the page with samples. I believe one is good enough for each decade, mainly the 'big songs'. Good job on the expansion i might add, i changed a few words around. The section is big enough for another picture, i will add the Reigning blood CD cover to the bottom left on the section. Then move the eagle so it's nicely formatted. :) M3tal H3ad 13:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, and regarding song samples - check out some other music featured articles, like The KLF, Pink Floyd, ect - most have numerous samples (PF has like 20). I think it's good to at least sample all of the hit songs, anything released as a single that has charted.(which for Slayer is probably none...) Also any "songs of note" that are specifically mentioned in the article - such as the article's mention of "Cult", or "Angel of Death", ect. If you only use one sample per decade, you are leaving out a lot of stuff. For example, the article already mentions the big difference in sound from Reign in Blood to South Of Heaven, but both of those albums are from the same decade. Same with Hell Awaits - the article mentions the shift in sound, which is completley different than late 80's Slayer, or from Show no Mercy. At the very least, I think each album should get one sample - maybe two for Seasons, RIB, and the bigger albums. Skeletor2112 05:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm you made a valid point. Maybe two for each section. Raining blood & south of heaven. Seasons of the Abyss & bitter piece(turned down guitars on diablous). Disciple and cult. We don't want to put too many because of fair-use. I suggest waiting to see what Michaelas10 has to say. M3tal H3ad 08:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yea, the ones you named sound about right - for sure any Grammy nominated song, because to the general public/non metal fan, the term carries a little weight. I think only Descipe has been nominated, which is plain retarded in the first place(that Seasons or others never saw a nomination!?!!). If you have problems getting stuff into ogg format and cut to 30 seconds, let me know - I can do it pretty easily. Skeletor2112 08:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yea disciple was their only Grammy nomination. I have no idea how to get it into ogg format, let alone heard off it. If more samples are added are we going to remove the sample boxes? If you could do the songs it would be appreciated thank you. Also to the guy who posted the you tube link, thats copyright, find the original source of the video and make sure you reference it properly. M3tal H3ad 09:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Heh, just today, Slayer got another Grammy nomination! [5] "Eyes of the Insane" for Best Metal Performance. The metal gods heard my cries, and responded in kind! \m/ I doubt they will win against the other more popular bands nominated, but it would be awesome to say "Grammy award winning SLAYER". Anyway, I think for sound samples, we should use sample boxes for the biggest 2 or 3 songs, then inline samples for the lesser tracks. This weekend I will cut 30 second samples of: South of Heaven, Seasons, A Bitter Peace, Cult, and Eyes of the Insane. I also want to continue the early years expansion stuff, adding more info on R.I.B., and on. Keep up the good work! Skeletor2112 10:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow thanks for that news. I really hope they win but i doubt it as you said. Stone sour will probably get it because of their pansy music and no swearing, clean image. Thanks for the help with the songs. But i have no idea on how to improve the article further. The only thing i can think of is finding the citations, any suggestions? Thankyou :) M3tal H3ad 10:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I've continued the History expansion, up to Reign in Blood. The aditional stuff throws the pics a little out of allignment, but when I add more about Reign in Blood and South of Heaven, the 1980s section should balance out. I do think that some sort of early pic would be nice, either a lineup pic from the early 80's, or an album cover (preferebly Hell Awaits, an aweseome cover, IMO). I also left a 'cite needed' tag after King's quote on being influenced by Mercyful Fate, as I dont have time to find the interview right this second(but I will in the next few days). IIRC, he kinda shit on the album, and said they were too influenced by MF at the time, and that it was his least favorite Slayer album. Anyway I'll find the quote soon, also I wanna add some kind of critical praise for the Hell Awaits part. I didn't cite everyhting I just added, but a lot of it was from the "Spoken history" reference used(an awesome read!) and I will add all cites soon, too. Anyway, songs and stuff should be up this weekend. \m/ Skeletor2112 12:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I added more info up to Reign in Blood, but didn't have time to add cites - so they will be up tomorrow - I ran out of time today. Skeletor2112 12:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Good luck with this.... I seriously hate the way the inline citations have been added though. Makes it 10 times more difficult to edit the article. LuciferMorgan 22:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

First live European date?

"Shortly after the release of Haunting the Chapel, Slayer made their live European debut at the Marquee club in London, England, then returned to the US to begin the "Haunting North America" 1984 tour."

Can anyone cite an accurate first-hand source for this London appearance? I've commonly heard they did not play outside of North America until the 1985 Heavy Sounds festival in Belgium, and in fact, the stage banter for that show is worded such that it does indeed seem like that was their first time in Europe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.21.190.132 (talk) 20:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Here is an interview with Jeff that further confirms their first European gig was the Heavy Sounds fest. I quote, "There are a few of them. The first time we played in Europe was good. I think it got cancelled twice, I know at least once, but when we finally got here I think the first show was in Belgium. I think we opened for UFO or something like that, that one I´ll never forget."

Kerrang

Does anyone know or have the issue of Kerrang that called reign in blood the heaviest album of all time? or the issue of metal hammer that ranked it #1 thrash album. We should use these as sources as editors prefer sources of all types. If you do leave a message here, thanks. M3tal H3ad 03:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

influence on metal

slayers influence is obvious throughout heavy metal esp. extreme metal. 1986s r.i.b was influential to the growing death metal scene along with bands such as death and possessed.their influence on black metal wasnt as large but still notable with black metal giants emperor and mayhem citing slayer as influences. they have also influenced newer bands ranging from post thrashers lamb of god to mallcore bands like slipknot.to this day they inspire headbangers round the world. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.31.199.234 (talk) 07:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

Images

I was asked to review the images here.

• Album covers are fine. The song samples seem to be fine.
• It could be argued that Image:SlayerBand2006.jpg fails WP:FUC #1, as it could be replaced by any photograph of the band. Further, we don't really know that we have the so-called "implict license to republish" this photo. Here and here are Flickr searches on "Slayer" limited to CC-BY and CC-BY-SA licenses. There are some nice shots of band members in the second search that should be uploaded to Commons. If no one here is familiar with that process, let me know and I'll do it.
• Image:Slayer80.jpg is improperly sourced, and needs to be deleted. It fails WP:FUC #10, as we have no idea who the copyright holder is.
• Image:23 258.jpg is not fair use in this article. It could be replaced with Image:JosefMengele1.jpg if we want an image of Mengele to illustrate this article.
• Image:Slayer eagle.jpg is fine -- but its fair use rationale could be improved. We're not using it because "it is the logo of the subject of the article", we're actually commenting specifically on the design (a much stronger argument).

I hope that this helps. Jkelly 19:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

New images

I think the article could use some kind of classic Slayer lineup pic - spikes, King's bushy hair, makeup, pentagrams and all that stuff. I'll see if I can track somthing down that has a verifiable copyright, but the best source (the band's site) has nothing old, at least that I can find. Any ideas? Skeletor2112 11:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Duh, I just looked over at the Slayer board and there are a shitload of old school ones, I will ask some of those guys if they will donate somthing. Check them out here: Slayer.net photo forums Skeletor2112 11:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Sound Samples

Sound samples are up - I added pretty much all of the notable tracks mentioned. Skeletor2112 02:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that. M3tal H3ad 02:40, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I've been away for the holidays, but what happened to all of the early samples? (Image:Slayer SS3 clip.ogg, Image:Aggressive Perfector clip.ogg, Image:Fight Till Death 83 demo clip.ogg)

They are all properly cited, and all have copyright info. Look at Megadeth for an example - plenty of sound samples. As long as they are properly cited, and pertain to the topic at hand, they can be claimed as fair use. Songs that are specifically discussed should be sampled. It's important to show the development of the band, and also to cover their early stuff.. Besides, old school Slayer much better than anything they've done in the past 15 years, anyway. Skeletor2112 09:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, welcome back. I removed SS3 because a sound-clip isn't really necessary and raining blood, it was in the sample box under hell and the track wasn't mentioned in Reigning Blood. I'll add the older clips back later. To give you a update, It's been a GA nominee for 11 days, undergone a biography peer-review and i requested a copy-edit at Wikipedia:WikiProject League of Copyeditors. M3tal H3ad 10:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Good Article

Reviewed and it is indeed a good article - nice prose, well written, proper info boxes, good images. Compare with Rush (band) for FAC push! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PopUpPirate (talk • contribs) 12:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

55

ref 55 is coming back with a 404 error on all its links. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ukbn2 (talk • contribs) 00:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

sympithizing

The introduction mentions acusations of Nazi sympithizing. Shouldn't this be sympathizing? English is not my first language so I don't feel comfortable making an edit here. Could someone shed some light on this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BlackJackFP (talk • contribs) 18:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

My bad, i just removed that part as it kinda drags on, gj spotting it out . M3tal H3ad 02:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Style

Unfortunately I don't have any outside links or other references at the moment, but the statement about Slayer's speed, "up to 75 drum beats per minute", sounds totally wrong to me. I am a musician, and 75 BEATS PER MINUTE is quite a slow tempo. There was a link to a supposed reference to this in the article, but I followed the link and found nothing about this. I don't know what "drum beats per minute" are, but BPM is the way musicians determine the tempo of a song. I didn't want to change or delete this reference in the article without making a mention of it here first. I would say that Slayer songs can be upwards of 200 BPM... Daniel Villalobos 18:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Find a reference for 200bpm(which i did and found nothing). M3tal H3ad 12:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Deleting reliable sources = vandalism

user M3tal H3ad keeps deleting reliable sources that cites the band's genre. This is considered vandalism, please read Wikipedia:Reliable sources. --Dexter prog 01:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Best "Big 4" Thrash Band = Slayer

Not sure if this is important enough to be featured in the main article, but it's worth noting that Slayer was the only band in thrash's "Big 4" that never sold out on their sound. Quite unlike Metallica, who became soft for mainstream acceptance (just listen to Load, Reload and St. Anger). Unlike Megadeth, Slayer never released a crappy album (Risk). Anthrax just started being this rap/nu-metal act around the mid-90's. Slayer's kept it true throughout the years.

Note, I'm not bashing any of the other 3 bands in "Big 4", because they all had strong contributions to heavy metal. It's just a personal opinion of mine, and I'm interested to hear if anyone agrees with me. URFG

If an article on a Pokemon can be on the front page, anything can. I haven't listened to much Anthrax and Megadeth but i do agree with Metallica, namely because of their producer. I've seen lots of people call Slayer sell outs and all that crap and it's all just personal opinion. M3tal H3ad 08:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

A Question

When was this article featured? Half-Blood Auror 13:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

1 Month ago, yet to be on the front page if thats what your wondering. M3tal H3ad 06:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Summer Tour 2007

So far, the line-up is as follows:

• Slayer
• Marilyn Manson

Tour dates and other bands have yet to be announced. If you have a verifiable source, then care to ellaborate? URFG 20:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)URFG

Elyse Pahler

I don't think its apropriate, or good taste to use the picture of Elyse Pahler in the article. The image looks like a family snap, and I doubt the parents would allow it for "fair use" in an article about a band whose fans murdered their daughter. Instead one should be found of the criminal fans. - Deathrocker 15:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

• You're probably right, but where's a picture of the fans? M3tal H3ad 02:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Genre

I Believe that Nu-Metal should be added as one of the genres to Slayer. I mean, Diabolus In Musica and God Hates Us All were definetly leaning towards it. And i disagree with the speed metal genre, how does Slayer sound anything like other speed metal bands such as Testament or Megadeth?

Uh, have you ever even LISTENED to Reign in Blood? That should answer your "speed metal" question hands-down!

• No reliable source has the albums as nu-metal, Bostaph himself said it was just very experimental for Slayer. Regarding speed metal, the album Show No Mercy was labeled speed metal by All Music Guide and musicians. M3tal H3ad 02:32, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
• I see.

I'm not trying to start a genre war here... But "nu-metal" shouldn't be included on their genre lists. It was only for those 2 albums, and they've got 10 studio albums overall. The rest are thrash/speed metal.

• Those were pretty experimental albums, so i suppose the genre can be listed out. Trivium9786 01:54, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
• in no way were Diabolus & God Hates Us All "nu-metal" albums. not speed metal, but certainly not nu metal either.

Actually, yes they were nu-metal albums. For example, the song "Threshold" has some very obvious similarities with Slipknot.

They are Thrash metal. ≈ Maurauth ^(nemesis) 18:23, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Singles

Hasn't this band singles? Armando.O^{talk • Ev} 02:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Released singles? Yes but none of them are really worth mentioning because they didn't chart. Also more important things to mention over a 25 year career :) M3tal H3ad 02:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• I really see a point in listing singles by the band. I mean, mainstream crud gets all the credit since it charts...who cares? Throw it in just for some info that might come in handy for a fan wanting to know more possibly without the extra hassle of searching through Slayer sites. Trivium9786 01:57, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Year formed

Why is it that the year the band was formed keeps getting changed from 1982 to 1981? The correct year is 1982 that is what the band published in the booklet of Soundtrack to the Apocalypse (Deluxe Edition, page 6: "In 1982, heavy music meant Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Van Halen. Drawing from these early influences more, Kerry put together Slayer in Huntington Park (not Huntington Beach), California, an area just south of downtown Los Angeles.", "... Slayer played thier first gig at a Battle Of The Bands in Southgate, California. Somewhat fittingly - it was on Halloween." and "1982 > Tom Araya completes Slayer lineup > The Band get together in Huntington Park, California > Battle of the bands at Southgate is frist Slayer gig together"). I know that it was at least twice in the article with source information but it always is removed in a matter of days for some strange reason. Noctrun 16:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

There was no sources for the change to 82.. M3tal H3ad 10:55, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

No, it was in the with source information: see archived version Noctrun 15:51, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Ahhh, brings back memories of how crap the article use to be, anyway check the first source used - 20-year old bassist/vocalist Tom Araya (born in 1961), 17-year old guitarists Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman (1964), and 16-year old drummer Dave Lombardo (1965) danced with the dead in their dreams. M3tal H3ad 03:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I must be blind but I don't seem to find your qoute anywhere on there, besides the first source is the booklet I quoted above and I still think it's valid source as it's taken from a release that the band helped to put together... anyway you're right that the article has come a long way, but I think that this information might still improve it. here is the reference tag for it:

Eric Braverman, Marc Paschke (2003-11-25). Soundtrack to the Apocalypse: Essay & Liner Notes (Deluxe Edition ed.). American Recordings. pp. p. 6. In 1982, heavy music meant Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Van Halen. Drawing from these early influences more, Kerry put together Slayer in Huntington Park (not Huntington Beach), California, an area just south of downtown Los Angeles. (...) Slayer played thier first gig at a Battle Of The Bands in Southgate, California. Somewhat fittingly - it was on Halloween. (...) 1982 > Tom Araya completes Slayer lineup > The Band get together in Huntington Park, California > Battle of the bands at Southgate is frist Slayer gig together {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); |edition= has extra text (help); |pages= has extra text (help)

I'm talking about this. M3tal H3ad 08:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Album Covers

I added the South of Heaven cover to follow what seamed to be an uncomplete theme. Show no mercy, Reign in Blood and God Hates us all, has album covers on the history section, but M3tal H3ad deleted it citing "remove cover, adds nothing to the article." Why not remove all album covers? or Add all album covers. I think the article would look a bit more consistent.Alcoholica1 18:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi, i guess you're a new user? Wikipedia tries to use as little copyrighted material as possible. All the album covers with pictures are referred to in the text, such as 'was banned for it's graphic artwork' which adds to its fair use rationale. The cover of South of Heaven was not mentioned in the text and the article has quite a lot of copyrighted material atm and it should be kept to a minimum. M3tal H3ad 07:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Date of foundation

Hey guys, why have you written that Slayer were formed in 1981?. I think it is wrong because many references tell that the were founded in 1982 (examples, www.metal-archives.com, www.slayersaves.com and www.slayerized.com/). The booklet of "Soundtrack to the Apocalypse" reports also this date. --Born Again 83 18:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Look how dodgy them websites are, check the source i have cited which is basically a biography of the band with interviews with the band and people who worked with them. M3tal H3ad 11:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

And where are the sources of their birth in 1981 ? Anyway, I'm sure these sites aren't dodgy, at least the fan sites, they are official, too --Born Again 83 09:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Fan sites are not "official" in anyway, Metal-archives in an un-reliable source as any user can submit data, watch this video interview with the band where 1981 is mentioned here And the paragraph in the second reference

"In 1981, the Billboard charts were dominated by Rick Springfield (“Jessie’s Girl”), Olivia Newton-John (“Physical”) and Dolly Parton (“9 To 5”). Punk’s second (third?) wave had already hit both coasts, with the Misfits in New Jersey, Minor Threat in D.C., and the Dead Kennedys in San Francisco; “speed metal” was bicoastal as well, with Metallica in L.A. and Anthrax in New York City. Elsewhere in Los Angeles, Black Flag ruled the underground and Mötley Crüe were quickly becoming the coke-metal masters of the Sunset Strip. On the fringes of L.A. County, where evil has no boundaries (Southgate), where bastard sons begat their cunting daughters (Huntington Park), 20-year old bassist/vocalist Tom Araya, 17-year old guitarists Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman, and 16-year old drummer Dave Lombardo danced with the dead in their dreams." M3tal H3ad 10:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

It seems not an interview but a part of their history. In this part, Araya and Lombardo don't talk about the year of their origin, I think. You said are accepted sources with interviews, and here their date of birth is told by others and not by Slayer. Anyway, there are few sources of their birth in 1981 on the web, the most of them reports 1982. The booklet of "Soundtrack to the Apocalypse" reports also this date and I don't think it tells lies --Born Again 83 10:19, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Their official website says they were known as DragonSlayer and they weren't. Even "Official" releases make mistakes - I'm youtubing to find the year they formed coming from a band member, feel free to join in. M3tal H3ad 10:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'm going to see what can be made. I also found on this web page another drummer called Bob Gourley that did few gigs with Slayer during the early days of the group --Born Again 83 11:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm i haven't heard of Bob Gourley ever and a google search doesn't come up with anything, but ill continue to look. I e-mailed Joel McIver who is writing Slayer's first official biography and hopefully he will be able to provide the answer. M3tal H3ad 11:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's a good idea --Born Again 83 11:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I got a reply pretty quickly - "Slayer's first show was Halloween 1981 but Tom and Kerry had been jamming for a while before that, maybe even as far back as '80." M3tal H3ad 12:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, but a concrete source is needed, can you obtain a clear information about that (the complete date for example)? --Born Again 83 13:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

omg

Oh my god I can only say, havent you people even listened ever Slayer? "Uh, have you ever even LISTENED to Reign in Blood? That should answer your "speed metal" question hands-down!" ←- Speed metal, what the hell are you talking about! Slayer has always been, over 20 years of Thrash Metal, leading band and the pioner of the genre!

Actually, yes they were nu-metal albums. For example, the song "Threshold" has some very obvious similarities with Slipknot. ← Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard now in my damn life! Dude, I lauhged my butt off for 3 hours to that comment :D Slayer is nu metal according to the song Threshold is similiar to Slipknot :D C'mon man, You really cant be serious :D You probably have never even heard Slayer so goodly :D No offence but thats the Stupidest thing you can say about Slayer :D

Your insults are not needed here in the discussion page. Please, if you want to provide a cited reference showing that the particular album(s) in question aren't related to the nu-metal genre, do so and the change to the article will be made. Until then, keep your rude, insulting garbage out of the wikipedia community. Paulintheflesh 03:49, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

11th Studio Album

I heard some people talking about it on a local radio station. Has any other, more official word about this came out? Dark Executioner 15:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)Dark Executioner

It would be their 10th studio album (Undisputed was covers), but i haven't heard of anything.

V0.7 nomination held

Currently, this article's nomination for Version 0.7 is being held for further discussion. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 22:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Why is Speed metal and Thrash metal being used so interchangeably?

Speed and thrash metal are two completely different things. Speed metal is basically good old fashioned heavy metal with the speed cranked up. Thrash metal took speed metal and essentially fused it with hardcore punk. It's a much more aggresive, metallic sounding, and heavier.

So why is Slayer being labeled as speed metal? I know, All Music Guide is saying that they're speed metal, but they are often too vague in their categorization (for instance, they always lists black metal and death metal together, but they sound nothing alike). Hell, they're closer to death metal than speed metal. I would label their music deathrash all the way. Helltopay27 22:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Their first two albums are labeled speed metal. Most bands do not have one constant genre for every album, certainly over such a long career. Metallica started out as thrash and are now called heavy metal. M3tal H3ad 02:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

That's because Metallica has made an obvious change in sound. I don't think Slayer has; they're the same thrashing band as they were when they released their first album. Like I said, speed metal is heavy metal with the speed on 11. Slayer has always had, at the very least, thrash elements in their music.

I mean, yes, speed and thrash metal are very similar, but there are still clear distinctions between the two. The same is true between Slayer's music and speed metal. Helltopay27 00:27, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The table is broken

Can someone fix it, 'cuz I ain't 2 good at that- i aint got no learnin

Non-free media problems

None of the non-free images or audio samples has a unique fair use rationale explaining the particular purpose of use of the item in this article. – Ilse @ 02:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)