Talk:Spider-Man (Miles Morales)

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Good article Spider-Man (Miles Morales) has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
June 9, 2012 Good article nominee Listed

Scorn Regarding Race[edit]

I feel it's inaccurate to say the new Miles Morales character causes controversy solely on race alone. I saw the entry and added an edit about how he wasn't an established character that mostly led to people's disdain, and someone quickly changed it back to racism. I bolded it for discussion and someone unbolded it. I'm abiding by the rules, so i only ask that others do the same. If you read through the IGN Comic Boards and other forums on the internet, there are scores of black and latino people (myself included) that echo the same sentiment as I. Niyemortal (talk) 04:44, 11 August 2011 (UTC)Niyemortal

I'm the one who un-bolded it, not because I don't think we should discuss it, but because there didn't appear to be a reason for the bolding within the article itself. The talk page is the right place for discussions like this. So kudos on bringing it here. :) ... Moving on to the subject, I do think we can say that the primary source of the controversy was the character's race, and the perceived political motivations for doing so. Spider-Man and numerous other characters have been "killed" (temporarily) and replaced before, by people of the same race, and in the primary Marvel Universe no less, with little or no public controversy. That being said, if you can find a way to word it effectively, and source it properly, be bold! Evanh2008, Super Genius Who am I? You can talk to me... 23:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
That's a lie. The only time Spider-Man was truly replaced was in the 90's during the Clone Saga storyline, and the outrage back then was even worse than it is now. While race is a element fueling the controversy, this would still exist regardless of whether the new Spider-Man was black or not. - ESE150 (talk) 15:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)w

Gay or no?[edit]

Will the new character be gay? I am hearing that he will. Could someone elaborate who knows more about it? I think he is a wonderfully diverse character either way, but it would certainly be historic for such a mainstream character to be homosexual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glendale1 (talkcontribs) 11:54, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Him being gay was a "joke" started by Glenn Beck. It has absolutley no basis in reality. Notthegoatseguy (talk) 01:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I haven't heard of Beck having anything to do with it. To my understanding, it comes from something the artist said in an interview, that one day multiracial characters and characters of other backgrounds (gay, minority, whatever) will be commonplace. That's what Newsarama tells me, anyway. Evanh2008, Super Genius Who am I? You can talk to me... 01:18, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Sarah Pachelli, the artist, said "Maybe sooner or later a black or gay — or both — hero will be considered something absolutely normal." Some news sources, such as The Daily Mail, took this to mean (I'll just quote their article...) "But another surprise could be in the pipeline after his creators said that in the future they would not rule out making him gay." with the headline of "Marvel Comics reveals the new Spider Man is black - and he could be gay in the future". 66.168.67.155 (talk) 21:32, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Miguel O'Hara[edit]

While Miguel was half Latino, he was not Half Irish. His real father was Tyler Stone, not the man whose last name he took. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.203.69.29 (talk) 19:35, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Subject/verb[edit]

"Miles Morales is a fictional comic book superhero published by Marvel Comics."

How about "a fictional superhero in a comic book published by Marvel Comics?" It's the book that's published, not the superhero. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.8.102 (talk) 23:12, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I think you have a good point. I looked at the articles for Spider-Man and Batman and will change the header to match those.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:47, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Okay, is the current version better? It's not exactly what you described but it flows better IMO than the previous version.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:50, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Andrew Garfield reference[edit]

Andrew Garfield made a reference how he would like to see the next Spider-Man actor be a Black/Hispanic actor. Would this be notable/reliable (being that he didn't mention Miles by name) enough to mention in the article?--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:26, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I do seem to remember that a while back...it is true but I am not sure I remember that's a reference of him or not. Where is the source that you saw it from? Jhenderson 777 19:54, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Here are two sources [1]. [2] He didn't mention Miles by name so I guess it might fall under WP:OR but at the same time the connection has been brought up by other sources, so maybe we could say "leading some reporters to believe that he was referring to Miles Morales" or something similar.--CyberGhostface (talk) 20:23, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
That last suggestion could possible work. It's at leat a try. I am also curious have you thought of nominating this as a good article? Because it is holding up pretty nicely when compared to other fictional character articles. Jhenderson 777 20:30, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
I'll take a look and see if it fits the requirements. Thanks.--CyberGhostface (talk) 20:46, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
If neither Garfield nor a secondary source reference Miles Morales in relation to Garfield's quote, then this article is not the place to add it. Nightscream (talk) 20:43, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
A few secondary sources, including the ones linked, have referenced MIles in conjunction with Garfield's comments.--CyberGhostface (talk) 20:46, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
The closest thing that seems to come close as to not fitting that requirements for GA is that Morales behind his mask image might not be acceptable for a fair use rational. Personally I don't have a problem with it but you might want to know a real reviewer's opinion on that. Even still you could always try to find a good commentary for a image to make it acceptable. Jhenderson 777 23:34, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
..and also the lead might need summarizing per WP:lead but that is always the easiest part.Jhenderson 777 23:37, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Miles Morales and the USM cartoon[edit]

The show really has nothing in common with the Ultimate comics and the connection is really in name only. It's basically just Spider-Man teaming up with other heroes and there's nothing based off anything Bendis wrote. It doesn't even take place in the Ultimate Universe as the various characters are based on their 616 counterparts (except for Nick Fury who is the Samuel L Jackson version). Knowing that, is the bit about Miles Morales not being in the cartoon really relevant to the article? It would be like saying "He's not the lead in The Amazing Spider-Man movie despite the movie drawing inspiration from the Ultimate comics".--CyberGhostface (talk) 18:12, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

If it's not in the body of the article, it should not be mentioned in the lead of the article. It also does seem a little irrelevant. Jhenderson 777 19:06, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
I'd think the passage clarifies to readers that the topic of the Morales article has nothing to do with the topic of the cartoon article, as they both have the same name. This way the uninitiated who may come across the article(s) will understand that the two have little to do with one another. Nightscream (talk) 15:47, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Still doesn't belong in the lead if the body of the article doesn't state it. It may need to move per WP:Lead whether it stays or goes. Jhenderson 777 16:16, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
At the very least I don't think "despite appearing in the comics, he's not..." as that implies that he should be in the show.--CyberGhostface (talk) 17:54, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Citation needed for "Lou Dobbs expressed outrage"[edit]

The statement "Radio host and conservative pundit Lou Dobbs expressed outrage over the original Spider-Man being replaced by the new biracial hero." basically implies that Lou Dobbs is a racist who objected only to Miles Morales' race. That's a very serious accusation. Either a citation with quotes should be added that backs this up or this line should be removed from the article entirely. Burnsbert (talk) 14:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Spider-Man (Miles Morales)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk · contribs) 20:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

This looks good to me. It seems to cover the topic really well, and is well written. Just a few issues to address, but I think this should become a GA quite easily. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

  • The lead needs a little work, per WP:LEAD. Each part of the main body is not really represented in the lead at the moment, for example the background to his "taking over" or some of the character history, or critical reaction. YesY
  • "Despite Morales' role as Ultimate Spider-Man in the comic book series, he is not the lead for the Ultimate Spider-Man animated TV series that debuted in April 2012 on Disney XD." A little clunky. What about "Although Morales features in the Ultimate Spider-Man comic book series, he is not the lead character in the Ultimate Spider-Man animated TV series that debuted in April 2012 on Disney XD." YesY
  • Forgive me if this is an obvious one, but what makes Latinrapper.com a reliable source? (Even if this cannot be established, I'm fairly sure that the inclusion of the interview makes it reliable for our purposes).
  • Similar for ifanboy.com.
  • "African American": I'm never sure if this should be hyphenated. YesY (The current Wikipedia article has it as African American)--CyberGhostface (talk) 19:40, 8 June 2012 (UTC))
  • "the plans were revived and the character Miles Morales was created": I'm not sure that this is supported by the reference. It's sort of implied, but not that the plans had ever been halted and then revived. YesY
  • "unbeknownst to him": Why not just "unknown to him"? YesY
  • "Days later, after the Prowler's nephew,[12] gradeschooler[11] Miles Morales is bitten by the spider during a visit to Davis' apartment, develops superhuman abilities similar to those Peter Parker had,[12] though he only confides in his best friend, Ganke,[13] because his father, Jefferson,[14] who displays a dislike of superhumans, and forbids Miles from associating with his uncle Aaron, Jefferson's brother, because Aaron is a thief, as Jefferson used to be": Ouch. Horrendously long sentence which doesn't really make sense after "Davis' apartment". Needs fixing. YesY
  • "at the hands of the Green Goblin, who is revealed to be high schooler Peter Parker": As written, this suggests that Parker was the Goblin.YesY
  • "was met with mixed results by audiences": Maybe "mixed reactions" would be better.YesY
  • Reception first paragraph: This uses "some say" too much. It should be more precise: who is saying? Press: which newspapers. Critics? Commentators? Anyone specific.
    • Taking a look at the sources in question, it appears that there are no specific people, they are just referencing reaction in general from internet commentators and comic fans..--CyberGhostface (talk) 02:05, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
      • May be better to say something like "critics" or "commentators" here then, as "some" is too woolly really. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • "wrote the character should be based on the quality of its stories rather than his appearance or ethnicity": This is supported by the ref but does not quite make sense. Maybe "the character should be judged on the quality of its stories rather than on his appearance or ethnicity".YesY
  • Is there any other reaction. The original novelty has presumably worn off now. How are the stories and character being received.YesY (Added two reviews from Newsarama and IGN on the first issue that discussed Miles --CyberGhostface (talk) 22:46, 8 June 2012 (UTC)) And, to balance the "conservative talk show" angle, were there any other prominent commentators who spoke out in support?
    • I've looked around and couldn't find any major liberal commentators who spoke about Morales (just Colbert and Stewart mocking some of the dissenters). If anyone could help in this matter that would be appreciated.--CyberGhostface (talk) 02:05, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
      • I'll leave this unstruck, but not a problem for passing. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Images all have appropriate licences and non-fair-use rationale seem to be in order. No Dablinks and most links ok. However, ref 24 is dead.
    • Ref 24 is still dead. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • All sourcing looks good: only 2 queries above, but even if reliability could not be established, the content of the interviews makes them reliable enough to use safely, I think.
    • I haven't struck these, but am happy to accept them for the moment owing to their content. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

I will place this on hold for the moment, but I can't see any reason it shouldn't pass. My only slight concern is that the critical reaction section is up to date and comprehensive enough, but not a big issue. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I'll try going over these when I have some spare time, but if anyone else wants to work on this in the meantime, go ahead.--CyberGhostface (talk) 21:18, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm going to add YesY marks as I do each one if that's alright with you.--CyberGhostface (talk) 19:34, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
I expanded the Lead, Cyber, as per your request on my talk page. Hope that helps. Nightscream (talk) 00:58, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much, it does. :)--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:45, 9 June 2012 (UTC

Just a couple of issues left; the "some" issue and the dead ref. Then I'll pass. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Just wondering, which reference specifically is not working for you? I just went through all of them and they all showed up for me.--CyberGhostface (talk) 15:54, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, it's now ref 25. You can see for yourself using the external links checker at the top of this page. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:01, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
I replaced the ref for 25 with another source.--CyberGhostface (talk) 19:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

All good now. Passing now, well done. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:10, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Lede needs edit.[edit]

The sentence:"The character possesses powers similar to those of the original Spider-Man, which were derived from the bite of a spider genetically engineered by Spider-Man's nemesis Norman Osborn in an attempt to duplicate those abilities." is vague and irrelevant. It is about Peter Parker's power's origin, and needs to be about Morales'. There is no reason I should have to dig into the article to find out that Morales was bitten by a genetically modifed spider conferring powers similar to Parker's, augmented by camoulage and "stun" capabilities. Needs to be rewritten and kept on subject (which is the Morales character). I also note there seems to be a huge argument about his race, but he has two (if one wants to be PC and claim "Latino" is a race). It would be helpful to learn what the racial breakdown of readers of this Comic Book character is; I don't suppose Marvel is willing to say? A fairly good estimate is probably the demographics of the relevant age group, which IS available. Why not include it? As a WASP, I find the kerfluffle silly. Africa should surpass Asia in population in the next 50 years or so, whether you just start using a different ink composition on Peter (there's no reason, afaics, that Peter must be "white" or European) or introduce a "new and improved version", as done here, a profit-oriented interprize has to keep its characters in tune with the readers it is courting. (Which isn't the 35 year old living in Mom's basement). Speaking of the race issue, its hard for me to believe no one has commented on his camouflage ability in terms of black's invisibility in mainstream America...I'll also note that this article claims the stun takes 2-4 seconds and equates it to a kick in the balls. LOL. Really? 2 seconds? Written by someone who is female or castrated (or clueless). It doesn't take 2 seconds for a 'fetal response' to such an injury. I bring it up because it is silly, and inaccurate and of doubtful use as an explanation,unless his stun immobilizes via pain? In which case, anyone on adrenaline will be pretty much immune...Spiders are too small, in general, to generate a significant electrical charge, but whatever...none of this stuff is based on anything like real physics.173.189.72.165 (talk) 16:02, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

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