Talk:Stephenson, West Virginia

NOT on the Guyandot river

Its called Beetree creek, has been for a while. I am not here to revert edits. I could care less. BUT I see alot of creeks and streans being called the Guyandott, OH wellCoal town guy (talk) 03:44, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, here's why I'm inclined to disagree with you:

• GNIS/USBGN/USGS identifies the stream that flows from Amigo to Mullens (and thence on to Huntington) as the Guyandotte River, beginning at 37.5976146°N 81.3217685°W / 37.5976146; -81.3217685. I recall seeing something (a map?, I can't remember) using a different nomenclature for the stretch of the stream upstream of Mullens -- having it named Devils Fork all the way to Mullens, I think -- but that doesn't seems to be the distinction you're making, as far as I can tell.
• Beetree Branch flows into the Devils Fork in Raleigh County, at 37.5792815°N 81.3034348°W / 37.5792815; -81.3034348, at or near a place called Madeline (which is at 37.5803926°N 81.3042681°W / 37.5803926; -81.3042681).
• GNIS/USBGN/USGS places Stephenson entirely in Wyoming County, at 37.5803924°N 81.3262129°W / 37.5803924; -81.3262129. These coordinates are very near the Rt. 16 bridge over the aforementioned stream identified as the Guyandotte River. Here is the Google Street View of that stream from that bridge. It's not Beetree Branch, which is not crossed by Rt. 16 and is in a different county.
• Here is the Google Street View for the Stephenson Post Office. It's on Rt. 16 a short distance west of the aforementioned bridge. The name of the town on the building is illegible, unfortunately, but the word is the same length as "Stephenson" -- and what else would it say besides "Stephenson"?
• GNIS/USBGN/USGS identifies a different location for a Stephenson Post Office at 37.5770590°N 81.3320463°W / 37.5770590; -81.3320463, on the opposite side of the Guyandotte River from the above-pictured post office. (Maybe this where it was in the past? I don't know).
• Putting this all together, I'm satisfied that there is a present-day place called Stephenson in Wyoming County, and that it's clearly in very close proximity to a stream that the USGS considers to be the Guyandotte River.
• Earlier on my talk page, you indicated that you felt the GNIS coordinates were wrong, and that Stephenson is in some other place entirely from where the US government says it is. I was willing to entertain that possibility that the database is incorrect, but the presence of a post office would seem to leave you arguing that the Stephenson Post Office is not in Stephenson.
• If you're arguing that the stream that flows from Amigo to Mullens is named something other than "Guyandotte River," it would be great for that to be cited and indicated in the article. But I think that the USGS's nomenclature for the stream merits significant consideration at least equal to those from other sources. --Malepheasant (talk) 15:25, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

The devils fork post office was located up a road, currently named Devils Fork Road, Devils Fork Did have a Post office. The Stephenson post office is on 16, down from the church at Stephenson. The coordinates are not correct for the specific area because when you look at the GNIS details it states that Devils Fork was a former name. No, nope sorry. There were 2 distinct mining operations. They had 2 distinct differing forms of coal scrip and there are different advert and company logos for each of the coal operations there. I have ref'd the mine maps from the USGS which are part and parcel of what the WVGS uses. I am NOT arguing that the place called Stephenson is NOT Stephenson. I am arguing that the place that the GNIS details says was formerly Devils Fork is incorrect. Devils Fork was a different place, one did NOT replace the other. The only proof left would be the mine maps,which for Devils fork, show mines in Raleigh County. Stepehenson mines are in Wyoming. Hence why I have clearly stated and clearly refd that the mine maps for each of these towns is in a different place. As to the usage of a river, I understand and totally respect the issue which is a slippery slope. IF you ignore local knowledge, and use maps because a guy did not want to complete a survey in a hollow as tired that day, I wont revert that, I am not going to go down that road. Its a pointless exercise and I am here like you t document these places the best I can. I do not rely on a single source, even by the US Government as a bible. Sure GNIS is swell, its not 100% accurate. I greatly admire the work you do. I ask that you consider, WHY, would a mine map for Devils Fork show mines in Raleigh ad yet Stephenson, has its mines in Wyoming County??? ESPECIALLY since the survey is a by law, a county function....IMO, and in my experience, the county maps are far far more accurate and I do hope the folks I have interviewed who worked those mines, did not forgot, where the mines were and if they fished from a creek or river.....AGAIN, call it a river, call it a creek, its up to you. I apologize if in any way, my assertions have caused you to look at data and determine that a map, not the local people who mined the area for decades, takes precedentCoal town guy (talk) 22:25, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm really curious, though: What, according to local knowledge, is the name of the stream crossed by Rt. 16 about a third of a mile to the east of the present-day Stephenson post office, the one I indicated above, this one right here. Does local knowledge have a name for that stream?, and what is that name? --Malepheasant (talk) 00:49, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

hmmm, I do not know the "local name", I know the name I grew up with. In the Delorme Atlas, grid E6, thats the creek which came off of the river. Which would be a tad unusual for Crinne to on that seeing as How Corinne, is further down the same road on the right as well. The area I am talking about was just before there. The area you are pointing out is the bridge, JUST after the church, down the road from the place we called Beetree Creek, which fed that stream under the bridge. In fact, passing the church and into the sun, you would find the current Stephenson Post office on the right after another 5 or 600 yards. We called it (Beetree) a creek, because, locally, at least from when I was a kid on up, it was referred to as a creek. Its rather small, fed into the larger stream, and is up what is now called Devils Fork Road, which acquired local noteriety a few years ago because someone was killed in a car accident. That road,, lead to a small town, Devils Fork which ceased existing by about the early 40's. The deal with researching these places is that once the mineable coal is gone, the place is usually abandoned or, as in the case of another place name Willibet, disassembled, and a new town is started where they found coal.....Coal town guy (talk) 02:33, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

This report on the Upper Guyandotte Watershed was prepared and submitted in 2006 by the Upper Guyandotte Watershed Association, which is based in Mullens and does not appear to be staffed by Washington DC suits. According to page two of the report, "Stonecoal Creek and Winding Gulf rise in Raleigh County and join to form the Guyandotte River just above the Raleigh-Wyoming county line, near Amigo. The Guyandotte River flows westerly through Wyoming County..." -- i.e., according to the local watershed group, this stream flowing through the present-day communities of Stephenson (the site of the present-day Stephenson post office) and Corinne (the site of the present-day Corinne post office) and onward into Mullens is the Guyandotte River. The stream Rt. 16 passes over near the Stephenson post office is the Guyandotte River.

On my talk page yesterday, you declared that referring to this stream as the Guyandotte River is akin to placing the Potomac River in Arizona. Such absurd hyperbole, but now you say you don't even know what the stream in question is called. I feel I've made my case sufficiently.

My observation regarding the entire matter is that you've been attempting to center the discussion on your concerns regarding the historical locations of Stephenson and Devils Fork, West Virginia and their synonymy or non-synonymy as alleged by the GNIS database, with digressions into your childhood memories -- all at the expense of accurately locating the place called Stephenson that exists in the present-day, with a post office, along Rt. 16 where it crosses over the Guyandotte River. --Malepheasant (talk) 04:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

My observation is that it is people like yourself who ignore local customs and culture, who wind up losing history in WV. I have actua;;y watched towns get razed because, they were "eyesores". Then later, people like myself actually point out what was destroyed and then we get a road sign. A road sign you get to document and point out to me as being accurate on the map.....The idea that I have to explain that a hollow or road was a town and then, you make it sound as though I am having a Norman Rockwell moment is a tad churlish on your part. Worse yet, you make it sound as though this is a burden to your quest to have rivers correctly documented. I respect that, but this is the second time you have attempted to be demeaning in a reply, while I wasted my time being I thought, helpful. I am a former Phd candidate in Appalachian history specializing in coal culture in Southern WV. I kind of have to remind myself that here in Wikipedia land, being true to a web site trumps history every time. Good luck Coal town guy (talk) 15:13, 24 February 2013 (UTC)