Talk:Table of Ranks

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Russia / History / Military (Rated Start-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia.
To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.

Page needs better name[edit]

Table of Ranks is a poor title for this page. First of all each title should stand alone so it should be something like Table of ranks in Imperial Russia. I don't know enough about this subject to know if this is a good title or not and I don't want to do a page move only to have to have it moved again. Second, Wiki capitalization rules on page titles is that only the first word and proper nouns are capitalized.

  • Tabel o Rangakh (The Table of Ranks) is the name of the table as given by Peter I, so the capitalization is correct, as per Wiki capitalization rules. I think a more specific title would help, though - something like "Table of Ranks (Imperial Russia)" should work. [06-07-2006]
    • "Table of Ranks (Imperial Russia)" format of title is pointless. There is no other thing called Table of Ranks. Original article title restored. `'mikkanarxi 18:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Not true, in 1675, Louis instituted the ordre du tableau (Table of Ranks) making power dependent on rank and seniority (not noble birth).

Recheck a few specific titles[edit]

After I did some editing to clean up this table's appearance, I began to think it would be good for an expert to make certain I hadn't changed the proper column positions. I know very little of Peter's system and I specifically wondered about Court Councilors and Privy Councilors, which both sound to me more like court ranks than civil ranks. Thank you.

John Sinclair 09:29, 4 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saltlakejohn (talkcontribs)

They were both civil ranks. The names are a bit confusing :) Bazuz (talk) 23:25, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
I've just checked the background for надворный and it actually refers to a system of civil courts of justice (ru:Надворный суд) with jurisdiction over the lower social estates, which originated in 1719 and are similar to the reichshofrat system of the Holy Roman Empire. These courts were led by a Hofrat, a Court Concillor; this was later made into a general beaurocratic rank and survives in Austria to this day. The Privy Councillor similarily originates from Geheimrat, a German successor to the Hofrat rank. So these two titles have originated from German judicial ranks, not English court or civil ranks. I have changed the wikilinks to somehow reflect this.
BTW I made the original translations; I had to cross-translate many specialty titles from German to English, so some errors could remain and a check-up would be appreciated. --Dmitry (talkcontibs ) 19:51, 10 June 2011 (UTC)