Talk:Temporary capital of Lithuania

Most of this article seems to be about Vilnius not Kaunas. It does not bring up any new information, just repeating the contents of History of Lithuania. Do we need this ? --Lysy (talk) 3 July 2005 11:43 (UTC)

It is an explaination of the term temporary capital (laikinoji sostinė), which is I think significant in Lithuanian history. Also there can be explainations of the juridical position of Kaunas at the time and such. Some edits might be needed however and article can be shortened. DeirYassin 4 July 2005 10:15 (UTC)

Certainly it's good to have this information, but the proper place for it would be in History of Kaunas, History of Vilnius and History of Lithuania articles. In English language "temporary capital" means nothing more but a capital that is temporary, nothing more. It can have more specific meaning in Lithuanian usage but not in English, therefore the title is not correct and misleading. How about moving this contents to the above articles ? --Lysy (talk) 4 July 2005 11:13 (UTC)

It had a juridical basis however and such and the usage of this is explained here. DeirYassin 8 July 2005 10:50 (UTC)

Yes, but not in English language, where its meaning is pretty generic. --Lysy (talk) 8 July 2005 22:03 (UTC)

Hmm well maybe you can vfd it then; that way it'd be possible to hear opinions of more people DeirYassin 9 July 2005 09:52 (UTC)

New additions

I removed a number of speculations (had no other choice.. unwillingly..). Also, the alleged requirement for speaking good Polish to be elected remark seems highly doubtful, as Lithuanian was one of the state languages of Central Lithuania and there were even Yiddish-speaking MPs there. Also, I doubt that among those 1-2% of Lithuanians there were any politicians who did not speak Polish. Halibutt 07:08, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

My source for Polish language requirement is "Lietuvos istorijos įvykių chronologija 1918-1926" by Aleksandras Vitkus. It states that "December 1st: Elections' regulations were declared, which said that the elections will be done in counties(?) of Švenčionys, Vilnius, Trakai, Ašmena; that is in territory of Central Lithuania (afterwards, in order to get more votes, the electoral territory was extended to include counties of Breslauja and Lyda, which weren't part of Central Lithuania). (...) January 8-9: Elections to the so-called seimas of Vilnius. In the electoral regulations there was a paragraph, which declared, that each Vilnian, werether he/she would live can come in the voting day to Vilnius and cast his/her vote. Passive electoral right (a right to be elected) was granted for people, who had at least 25 years, completed at least primary school education and speaks good Polish. In the time of elections Polish journalists, in order to inform foreign journalists about the going of elections, organised a press bureau. The elections of "seimas" were held in territory, which had 20211 square kilometers size and about 735089 people. Out of all inhabittants of this area, 385'000 were written into those eligible to vote (according to other source, 263'537), 249'325 voted (according to other source - 163'292) or 64,7% of those eligible to vote (other source - 63,9%)" (translation is also not very well due to my bad English). It wouldn't be anything strange a requirement for good Polish, because that was to be language spken during parliament sessions and such; at those times they did not have the translations capabilities which are for example in European Parliament these days. As for Lithuanian minority speaking Polish, I guess those more urban and such did, but I am not sure werether that'd qualify as good Polish (e.g. my grandfather has troubles understanding Poles on TV and such now, but he knows some Polish - just that it's Vilnius region dialect I guess).

Also, could you please say where is from the information that supposedly the peace treaty was signed in exchange for cooperation against Poland. I don't think it was the case, as Lithuanians wer ethemselves fighting bolsheviks up to the peace treaty, and were quite weary to accept help from them later (when they offered support in Vilnius conflict in 1923, Lithuania refused and such). DeirYassin 08:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The article is poorly sourced, merely repeats what is said in other articles, e.g. Kaunas#History, Polish-Lithuanian War etc. I think it should be merged with Kaunas#History, although virtually all the information that is in this article can be found there already. Marcelus (talk) 14:44, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

(Wow, no comments in more than 1 month!) Per nom's comments here, I'd say it would be a good idea to merge content from this article that can't be found in Kaunas but is still sourced with adequate WP:RS to Kaunas then turn this page into a redirect for Kaunas#History. — Prodraxis {talk • contributions} (she/her) 03:28, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

 Comment: I have notified WP:LITH about this. — Prodraxis {talk • contributions} (she/her) 03:29, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

No objection here. I think it could be a separate article, but the question is whether anybody is going to work on it. More importantly, it can always be split-off again if there is enough content (and even then, I'd say "History of Kaunas" might be a better target). -- Mindaur (talk) 13:31, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Merge and Redirect: This is strictly a historical development of the city that at most could be an elaborated factoid. It should be merged with and redirected to Kaunas#Interwar Lithuania. XxTechnicianxX (talk) 23:55, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Do not merge. All-in-one articles which deal with a gazillion topics are difficult to read. Focused articles are much better for the reader. And that means more articles which are focused, rather than fewer superlong all-in-one. Take Paris, for example. There are thousands of articles on various Parisian topics. Just Parisian museums have hundreds of articles – List of museums in Paris, Museums in Paris, Réunion des Musées Nationaux, Musée de l'Orangerie, Musée – Librairie du Compagnonnage, Institut du Monde Arabe. Same goes for Paris historical events. Focused articles are better, you find what you look for in greater detail. With long all-in-one, you get a lot of stuff you are not interested in. Flying Coconuts (talk) 16:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

But there is no single line in this article that isn't in History of Kaunas already Marcelus (talk) 16:47, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

It would be better to have "Temporary capital of Lithuania" as a separate article and just briefly mention "temporary capital" on Kaunas#History.

Instead, Kaunas#History should use "See also: Temporary capital of Lithuania" or "Main article: Temporary capital of Lithuania" directly below the sub-heading of the paragraph which deals with "temporary capital". Apple and other big pages use such links out and they're great.

Focused articles are better. You find what you look for and don't get a lot of irrelevant stuff. Besides, focused articles are much better positioned for expansion and pictures.

Flying Coconuts (talk) 16:08, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

What could be elaborated with the fact the capital changed that would not be covered in government articles? Specific changes this caused in governance could be explained in corresponding articles in a few sentences. If it brought about a cultural Renaissance then that would have its own article. The Parisian museums are independently notable for their collections, history, and people. Other political and cultural events such as the Paris Commune have been covered by independent reliable sources. If no such coverage exists then it is a fact of Kaunas's history that is worth considering, but not creating an article for. Interest does not matter when all facts have received relatively minuscule coverage and are within the current of other events. XxTechnicianxX (talk) 18:06, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

There are loads of articles, books etc on the topic of "Temporary capital of Lithuania". It would be better to reduce the amount of "temporary capital" facts and details on Kaunas#History. Move them to "Temporary capital of Lithuania" if needed or delete if they're already there. And add a link out from Kaunas#History to Temporary capital of Lithuania.

This way, we are in much better position for the future. When there is anyone who wants add information or pictures about "Temporary capital of Lithuania", there is a separate article for that. The more high-quality information, the better. Meanwhile adding a lot of "Temporary capital" on Kaunas#History would be disproportional and thus unwelcome. Flying Coconuts (talk) 16:13, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

There are loads of articles, books etc on the topic of "Temporary capital of Lithuania", can you name three? The existence of the article would make sense if the legal fact of the temporary capital was long-lasting or Kaunas was not the only city with this status. At this point it is a redundant WP:FORK. It would be better to create a Capital of Lithuania article that would describe this phenomenon as on of several related to the subject. Marcelus (talk) 22:36, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Do not merge due to the convincing rationale of Flying Coconuts.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 17:23, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Care to elaborate what you see convincing there? Marcelus (talk) 22:30, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Do not merge. "Temporary capital" is a phenomenon of Lithuanian history and culture, which extends beyond the boundaries of the city's history. [1] --Obivan Kenobi (talk) 07:55, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Do not merge. This article (Temporary capital of Lithuania) is important for explaining this historical event in the history of Lithuania and Kaunas and why the Lithuanian temporary capital was established in Kaunas. Furthermore, it has the potential to be expanded in the future about rapid development of the interwar Kaunas architecture (which was recently recognized as a UNESCO World Heritage Site), culture, returning of the Lithuanian capital status to Vilnius (as aftermath), and other topics about interwar Kaunas. Such detailed information about a specific very distinctive period for the city would not fit in the main article about Kaunas and presentation of such information in many different articles would be difficult to find for inexperienced readers about this topic.--Ed1974LT (talk) 13:58, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Support merge. The Kaunas#Interwar Lithuania section is already larger than Temporary capital of Lithuania despite the expectation (implied by the template:main) that it should be a summary. This suggest that a separate stand-alone article is unwarranted. So, formal reasons for a merge are overlap, context and short text. Klbrain (talk) 19:29, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Do not merge, per Flying Coconuts and Ed1974LT, or at least repurpose into broader Capital of Lithuania article per Marcelus. - 87.58.32.220 (talk) 20:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.