Talk:Tenants Harbor Light

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Focal height

The focal height here seem wrong. NHRP says 25 feet, which apparently is from the base. However, this light is on a cliff. The Coast Guard site says something about 66 feet above high water mark. Another site says the height is 55 feet above sea level. Waymarking, Tenants Harbor Light. Ordinarily, focal height is measured from the center of the lens to the mean high water mark. See Pepper, Terry. "Seeing the Light: Lighthouses on the western Great Lakes". See also 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:55, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Stan[reply]

The Coast Guard volunteer historian at http://www.uscg.mil/history/weblighthouses/LHME.asp says,

"In 1857 a 27 foot tower was built on Southern Island to mark the entrance to Tenants Harbor. The tower was attached to a wooden dwelling by a work shed. The tower was fitted with a fourth order Fresnel lens. The light was 66 feet above the high water mark."

The NRHP doesn't really care about focal height, just the height of the building. Having a light with a building 27 feet tall and a 25 foot focal plane as shown in NRIS is theoretically possible but very unlikely. I'd be inclined to accept 66 feet above Mean High Water as the focal height -- it's the only height the Coast Guard really cares about, as that's what mariners need to know. The volunteer probably had access to old printed Light Lists and took information from them.

BTW, Pepper says that Great Lakes Lights focal height is measured from "mean lake level". The 2009 USCG Light List, vol VII, covering the Great Lakes says,

"Column (5): Height above water from the focal plane of the fixed light to low water datum, listed in feet." [emphasis added].

I'm not a Great Lakes mariner, so I don't how much difference it makes, but there's a lot of confusion over heights and I'd rather cite the Light List than a third party, however comprehensive his site is. Jameslwoodward (talk) 13:02, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've corresponded directly with Terry Pepper on this subject, and even posted it somewhere. The Coast Guard has not been consistent in the Great Lakes at least as to focal height measurements. There is a variation in the numbers in the various Great Lakes light lists. You can directly access four light historical light lists at the Great Lakes Lightkeepers Assocaition resources website. You are quite right that NHRP figures on focal plane include the building only. This is largely irrelevant to a mariner trying to figure out where he is by the distance between the horizon and the focal plane of a light. Thus, there are two lists in wikipedia for tower height and focal plane heights. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:13, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Stgan[reply]

So, do we go with 66 feet here?Jameslwoodward (talk) 13:27, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that the Coast Guard figures are probably most accurate. Should be put in and referenced. A problem exists in that this is not an active light, and current USCG li8ghtlists probably don't reference it. The historical link does have that info, and that is the best we have. While we try to be accurate, verifiability is said to be more important than truth (in an an absolute sense). We could also footnote the figure, and put in the footnote the alternate figures and their sources. What do you think? 13:50, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

I would cite only the USCG historical site as a source and would not cite Waymarking -- official sources trump non-official ones. Since the light is no longer in use, there's no one who might really care whether it's 55 or 66 feet and the discussion doesn't add much to the article. (I'd take a different position if it were a contender for Tallest Light in Maine, etc.) Since the NRHP data is known to be frequently bad and is obviously wrong here, I would suggest just using 66 feet with the ref to the USCG. But you've made it "your" article with a lot of work, so it's your call. BTW -- newbie question -- I see you (appropriately, I think) removed one of the stub tags, but not the NRHP stub tag? Can it be a complete lighthouse article but an NRHP stub?Jameslwoodward (talk) 16:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I made my proposed changers on the height question in the article. I don't think it's a lighthouse stub, and I've worked on a lot of articles. Since it doesn't have an NHRP infobox, and has little info on the NHRP, I would call it an NHRP stubb. We might want to add that inforbox. But I'm no expert on the NHRP. FWIW, I erred on the conservative side on this assessment question. Hope that answers your question. The only other items missing would be more specific book citations, and I don't have these books. I think I've taken this as far as I can. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with the article. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:17, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Stan[reply]

InfoBox Location

I used Tenants Harbor in the infobox deliberately, despite the redlink. While St. George, Maine is the legal name of the collection of towns, it actually doesn't have much of an existence -- doesn't appear on Google Maps, for example, or on road signs -- and Tenants Harbor is the largest of the villages in the legal town. Tenants Harbor is also the marine location of the light -- Duncan and Ware's venerable Cruising Guide to the New England Coast has nothing on St. George and a couple of pages on Tenants Harbor.Jameslwoodward (talk) 15:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The D'Etremont website used St. George, Maine. Of course, it appears elsewhere in our article. Your thoughts make a lot of sense. I don't have a preference, and would defer to your wisdom. Feel free to undo the change. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:19, 10 August 2009 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Your change is even better than just Tenants Harbor, thanks.Jameslwoodward (talk) 16:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NHRP infobox

I know nothing about filling these out for Atlantic Ocean lighthouses. Likely got something wrong in ifnormation or form. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:42, 10 August 2009 (UTC) Stan[reply]

You prompted me to think about doing something I had thought about before -- a combined infobox for NRHP Lighthouses. I did a little research and stumbled across the fact that you can embed an NRHP infobox in a lighhouse infobox. See my new comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lighthouses#Coordination with Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places for details. Jameslwoodward (talk) 11:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]