Talk:The Joe Rogan Experience

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Blatantly False Section To Article[edit]

In the COVID-19 section of this article, it claims Joe Rogan made "false remarks" regarding COVID-19. Cited are two opinion pieces both stemming from the same statement by Dr. Fauci. A single doctor disagreeing with a statement does not make it incorrect, nor is the single doctor a prophet of truth. Who wrote this article? This is pitiful. Of all my years in university this would be thrown out as tabloid documentation. Furthermore, if one were to include the data around young and athletic deaths from COVID - it would go to show Rogan's opinion holds water as two of the defining characteristics of COVID survivors are their age and physical fitness. This either needs to be completely removed, or framed as two differing opinions, not objective fact. The author should be ashamed of themselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FactChecker200000 (talk • contribs) 17:38, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just read the section on COVID-19 misinformation and it doesn't seem to be a Rogan vs Fauci issue. Recommended reading are Ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic and COVID-19 vaccine that should include citations to medically reliable sources (WP:MEDRS). Also, Wikipedia does not present opinions as equal to scientific consensus (WP:GEVAL, WP:YESPOV). —PaleoNeonate – 01:47, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I believe there was a successful edit on the article changing the phrase "false remarks" to "unpopular remarks". Good on the editor, yet I can't help but feel like your comment which came after the edit, is inaccurate to the original article. In which, it clearly stated Jow to be false as opposed to unpopular. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FactChecker200000 (talk • contribs) 21:54, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"I don't think you need to worry ..." (said Rogan)[edit]

We shouldn't write that a remark of Rogan is false --he really did think what he stated in his remark-- if what we mean is that we disagree with Rogan's suggestion, and that notable people also disagreed. (Therefore I had to revert the latest unmotivated revert.)--Corriebertus (talk) 06:36, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is incoherent. Whether or not he believed to be true his statements regarding COVID-19 is irrelevant to whether or not said statements are false. Misinformation relating to the COVID pandemic is not a difference of opinion, and matters of fact should not be stated as opinions.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:04, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
How is it false to say "I don't think you need to worry about this". Have there been studies on whether or not one should be worried? Removing my tongue from my cheek, what precisely did Rogan say here that is false? He didn't say vaccines are unneeded in young healthy people, which is what is being synth-y rebuked here. Not sure we can say "false" in wikivoice when his statement is so couched. SmolBrane (talk) 23:32, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would say that this emphasis on "being worried" is disingenuous, but I'll assume good faith and concede that perhaps the current phrasing of the article gives the impression that this is all Rogan said. The sources cited articulate that Rogan's claim was that young, healthy people have no real reason to get the vaccine, which is false. False claims about the virus, disease, and vaccine don't stop being false when phrased as medical advice. See PaleoNeonate's comment in the above section (which is about the exact same topic) - Wikipedia does not present opinions as equal to scientific consensus per WP:FALSEBALANCE.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 01:07, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
SmolBrane, that's not for us to decide. We follow reliable sources and the reliable sources say that the statement was false. –dlthewave ☎ 03:25, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes Vanilla Wizard the phrasing is poor. Joe had more to say and I think we could cite him directly since he does explain either before or after this quote. He does say something like 'the young don't need vaccination' but it's not clear at all from the current quote what is false. Dlthewave I missed reviewing the snopes source before, but no other source explicitly says “false”, they quote Fauci to say “incorrect”, which would be much more appropriate here. Several sources note that vaccinations have a different risk/reward with younger people, so false is a stretch. SmolBrane (talk) 03:39, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Several sources note that vaccinations have a different risk/reward with younger people" Which sources? Do they mention that in the context of Rogan's comments or is this your own WP:SYNTH? –dlthewave ☎ 03:43, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My characterization wasn't quite right, it's more about the acute need for vaccination with younger people. But from Snopes:
Rogan said that he was trying to suggest that young, healthy people had a lower risk of serious complications from COVID-19 (which is generally true but, again, young people are not immune from this disease)
From The Independent
“That’s incorrect,” Dr Fauci told NBC’s Today Show on Wednesday, explaining that Rogan’s logic only makes sense if “you’re talking about yourself in a vacuum.” Even if a young, healthy person gets a mild or asymptomatic case of the virus, he said, that person can then spread the virus to more vulnerable people.
I would favor the word "incorrect" here. Individual preferences that do not benefit the group are not "false", although they can be incorrect(if we defer to RSes, as we do). Please note that the only time Rogan's statements are called false is in the Snopes 'rating', not even the body makes this claim. SmolBrane (talk) 04:45, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not so sure I agree with the assessment that Snopes "rating Rogan's claims as false" is meaningfully different from Snopes saying that Rogan's claims are false. They don't repeat the term in the body of the article, but they do use it in large, bold letters when giving their overall assessment of Rogan's claims. The actual phrasing of the Snopes article is much harsher, reading "any implication that young people are at no risk of serious COVID-19 complications is a fiction." I think it takes a very tortured explanation to argue that Snopes didn't term his claims as "false."  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:02, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Interpret Snopes as you see fit, the majority of sources do not use the word "false", so I believe we should be more cautious with such a declaration here. SmolBrane (talk) 19:41, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Of the six sources cited on the sentences "On April 27, 2021, Rogan made false remarks about COVID-19 vaccines, in particular claiming that young, healthy people do not need to be vaccinated against the virus. This view was criticized by Anthony Fauci and White House communication director Kate Bedingfield, as well as by several media outlets.", The Hill referenced Fauci's quote saying Rogan's claim was "incorrect", Snopes termed it "false", I couldn't get the CNN clip to play (might be my adblockers?) but it linked to this CNN article which uses "false", the Politico article uses none of the terms, the Variety article uses "false", and The Verge uses "false." Not only do the majority of the sources use "false", nearly all of them do.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:59, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The CNN article says
Both Facebook and Twitter have removed false claims about Covid-19 vaccines. Spotify, as well, has removed misleading content including a podcast in March. A Spotify spokesperson said at the time, "Spotify prohibits content on the platform which promotes dangerous false, deceptive, or misleading content about COVID-19 that may cause offline harm and/or pose a direct threat to public health."
Variety says
COVID misinformation on Rogan’s show has included false statements by Infowars founder and conspiracy-monger Alex Jones
Verge says
Spotify issued a statement saying: “Spotify prohibits content on the platform which promotes dangerous false...
then later, on Facebook policies
This includes conspiracy theories — like vaccines containing microchips — and false claims about the safety, efficacy, ingredients, or side effects of vaccines.
These are the only utilizations of “false”, and they are not directed at Rogan, with the exception of the Snopes source. Only Snopes uses "false" directed at Rogan's comments. SmolBrane (talk) 02:13, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's fair. I would say that in most of these cases, it's contextually obvious that Rogan's claims are what they're talking about when they bring up Spotify's policy against false COVID-19 info, but I'll grant you that only the Snopes article is explicit in saying that Rogan's claims from April of 2021 were false. That'd leave us with one source that uses the term "false" explicitly, one source that quotes Dr. Fauci's use of the word "incorrect", a handful of sources that imply Rogan's claims were false, and no sources that explicitly or implicitly call his claim incorrect. Whether to use the term "false" or "incorrect" is quite a minor dispute, but I think it's still easy to conclude that "false" is closer to what sources are using than "incorrect."  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 03:06, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have opened an NPOV noticeboard conversation that relates to this here: Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#Emergent_changes_of_strategy_in_the_COVID_arena -- SmolBrane (talk) 20:21, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we should mix together "media outlets" with actual scientists (i.e. Fauci) as critics of Rogan's medical claims, because media outlets are no more qualified to take part in medical discussions than Rogan. If their articles refer to any scientists, mention the scientists. If they don't, I see no point in having them there. –Turaids (talk) 17:21, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite sure what you mean here, if you are saying that we should be quoting Fauci with inverted commas, I agree. The spotify and facebook statements on prohibiting false information do not suggest that Rogan's statements were false, since no content was removed. Those are simply references to the misinformation policies adopted by those companies. Sources are not being well-assessed here. The use of "false" here remains only applied by Snopes. SmolBrane (talk) 19:40, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring to the "as well as by several media outlets" in the following sentence about the critics of Rogan's statements. Either way, Wikipedia does seem to have become lazy and begun applying a double standard when it comes to COVID-19 (dis)information. Usually, to proclaim something as "false" you would be required to add a ton of references demonstrating a clear scientific consensus or at least link in the text the sections of other articles already doing that. Plus, I couldn't help but notice that the various scandals had been described in great detail, yet no one had even bothered to mention the notable people that had defended Spotify/Rogan. –Turaids (talk) 00:27, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I think there's compassion fatigue on wiki regarding skepticism and critics of the corporate talking points. Reverting nonsense for years might do that to someone. But divergence in COVID has been extraordinary. And the historically credible organizations like the WHO have damaged their long term reputation with expedient advice on masks, vaccination especially. Probably warrants writing an essay on it. Anyway, that's my foruming for the day. Saying 'false' in wikivoice should have a higher standard for inclusion, I agree. SmolBrane (talk) 16:33, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lead too short[edit]

Clearly the lead is missing key points regarding the subject of the article. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:18, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update to the joe rogan n word video[edit]

This article goes into detail about the people involved with the attempted deplatforming of joe https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/joe-rogan-says-hes-the-victim-of-a-political-hit-job-in-the-on-going-spotify-drama/55MYB5AHEFUZWWUACUS7U3DWAQ/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:193:4103:FA40:643F:42DC:E01F:AF9B (talk) 02:43, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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