Talk:Thirteen (song)
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[edit]Note about covers - my opinion is that it should only be listed if it was on an official release (live covers, bootlegs, etc. are not to be included) --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 18:51, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
---This is not a power pop song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.153.137 (talk) 23:27, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Genre
[edit]Ballad certainly seems appropriate, but in looking at the songs in [[Category:Rock_ballads]], it seems as if what's being used as the value in the Genre parameter reflects the band- not the single itself. I tried looking around Template:Single_infobox and Template:Song_infobox, but found no guidance. Thanks --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 20:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
- The purpose of any infobox is to summarize the key facts about an article, based on the cited content of that article. In the case of a song, infobox fields include release date, recording date, length, and so forth. Those are particular to the song, not the band. The same applies to genre: ballad is correct for this song infobox. PL290 (talk) 21:05, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, I understand the concept that the infobox reflects the article. That is why I'm confused about the infobox parameter for genre in the articles in Category:Rock_ballads. (examples: Angie (song), Don't Worry Baby, Let It Be (song), Candle in the Wind). Don't worry, I'm not changing anything.. just trying to be consistent and figure out why I can't find other articles with ballad as the genre --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 21:49, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
- I'd say that's for two reasons. Firstly, genre churn is a fact of WP life: genre being an imprecise concept, and music often exhibiting overlap between styles, people reading articles often add genres to the infobox that seem to them to fit (often not based on a WP:RS, and therefore constituting WP:OR). These entries are often then removed or changed by other editors—perhaps (a) because they're inaccurate/unsourced, or (b) to keep the number of genres in the infobox to a minimum, summarizing the main styles discussed in the primary text, or simply (c) because those editors have a different opinion about what the genre is. The net result is, some articles have a motley collection of dubious genres in the infobox. Secondly, a lot of ballads have a more dominant overlapping genre. Consider Angie: while certainly a ballad, it's also a full-blown rock song. "Thirteen" is just Chilton gently singing along to his guitar, with a few overdubs and oohs and ahs thrown in. Not even any percussion, let alone a rock band. Probably just like he sang it on his own in 1970 before he joined Bell. Returning though to what a WP article should say, like any other fact stated in an article (particularly potentially contentious facts), genre should be verifiable, and in this case "ballad" appears to be correct since the cited quote in the lead, and also the cited RS review, call it a ballad. If another WP:RS shows up which labels the song any differently, the infobox entry will need further discussion. PL290 (talk) 09:38, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks. --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 17:16, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
- I'd say that's for two reasons. Firstly, genre churn is a fact of WP life: genre being an imprecise concept, and music often exhibiting overlap between styles, people reading articles often add genres to the infobox that seem to them to fit (often not based on a WP:RS, and therefore constituting WP:OR). These entries are often then removed or changed by other editors—perhaps (a) because they're inaccurate/unsourced, or (b) to keep the number of genres in the infobox to a minimum, summarizing the main styles discussed in the primary text, or simply (c) because those editors have a different opinion about what the genre is. The net result is, some articles have a motley collection of dubious genres in the infobox. Secondly, a lot of ballads have a more dominant overlapping genre. Consider Angie: while certainly a ballad, it's also a full-blown rock song. "Thirteen" is just Chilton gently singing along to his guitar, with a few overdubs and oohs and ahs thrown in. Not even any percussion, let alone a rock band. Probably just like he sang it on his own in 1970 before he joined Bell. Returning though to what a WP article should say, like any other fact stated in an article (particularly potentially contentious facts), genre should be verifiable, and in this case "ballad" appears to be correct since the cited quote in the lead, and also the cited RS review, call it a ballad. If another WP:RS shows up which labels the song any differently, the infobox entry will need further discussion. PL290 (talk) 09:38, 20 March 2010 (UTC)