Talk:Todd Rundgren's Utopia (album)

Argumentative tone from the start

These are currently the second and third paragraphs of the article:

The first track, Utopia Theme, was recorded live at the Fox Theatre in Atlanta, Georgia on April 25, 1974, Not November 8, 1973 as has been previously believed. The November date was mistakenly placed on the Retrorock radio show that was broadcast in 1982 that includes "Utopia Theme" from the Todd Rundgren's Utopia LP as well a portion of that concert.

The set list is also proof that the November 1973 date is incorrect. The songs "The Last Ride", "Everybody's Going To Heaven/King Kong Raggae" "Sons Of 1984(Except for the recording of in August 1973)" and "Open My Eyes" were not in the set lists for the 1973 tour. These tunes were new for the 1974 tour.

This had me blinking and going "Eh?" Others might say, "Who cares?" It's as if the article is being used to close an argument that began somewhere else! As far as I can even understand what it's saying, it's an argument of questionable relevance: A 1982 radio show?

The second quoted paragraph is flat-out awful. What's up with "Sons Of 1984(Except for the recording of in August 1973)"? I know progressive rock had some weird song titles, but ...! Of course, that's not the title -- but then again, what does that parenthetical even mean? Senseless little fragment. I'm also willing to bet that it's "King Kong Reggae". And none of these songs appear on the album anyway, so why is this even here?

I've convinced myself in the writing of this comment to go ahead and delete both. But they are preserved here with my reasons for doing so. I just don't see this information as relevant. It all hinges on that vague phrase, "as has been previously believed": By whom? Or, more importantly: By how many? (Imagine forty years of a sporadic and listless message-board argument between bootleg collectors!) Furthermore, it gives the article a snotty and distinctly unfriendly tone. The poor writing makes me question the information (oh, yeah, "Open My Eyes" was on Nazz in 1968, and could have been performed anytime by any lineup of Utopia), but mostly, I don't think it belongs here.

Apologies if there's a legion of fans who are let down by my decision.

--Ben Culture (talk) 20:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Limits of vinyl, compression, and the CD release.

Like a few of Rundgren's solo albums (notably A Wizard, a True Star and Initiation), the album's sheer length pushed the limits of vinyl. At nearly an hour, the sound needed to be compressed in order to fit it onto one vinyl record, resulting in a lesser audio quality than a shorter album. The CD version avoids this issue.

I think a source citation would be appropriate (and not terribly difficult to find) regarding the compression and the audio quality of the vinyl release. I don't actually question this -- in fact, I believe it wholeheartedly, without even hearing the record. But a source would be nice.

My main concern is "The CD version avoids this issue". I'm not an audiophile or any kind of expert, but . . . does it? Because, see, I do know that Dynamic range compression is, well, a significant thing to do to an analog recording, but I don't know at which stage of the record-making this compression was done -- or if it could be undone. As with the rest of the paragraph, I do tend to believe the statement. The compression was probably done after mastering (reminder: I don't know what I'm talking about), and thus an uncompressed master mix could be used for the CD release. But this could be untrue. Questions of length aside, I can name some bad CDs of good albums! It would be good to have a source for this statement -- or maybe somebody who understands the record-making process better could just explain why it is likely to be true.

--Ben Culture (talk) 21:01, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Way after the fact, I'm making my comment for others information (and to answer Ben's question). Yes, the CD would avoid the issue. The compression being spoken of is the closeness of the groove spacing to make it fit the side of the album. When the groove spacing is very close the mastering engineer doing the cut has to back off level, bass level and deal with some related things - cross cuts, inner groove distortion, etc. - to make the groove playable and still fit onto the album side. Consequently the vinyl's dynamic range would be adversely affected and the CD's would not as the master tape would not have been altered for the CD master. Simplified, but hope that helps. THX1136 (talk) 17:35, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

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