Talk:United States 40 mm grenades

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Military history: Technology / Weaponry / North America / United States

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M576

Okay, so so far I've seen two things. Globalsecurity.org has it at 27 00 pellets, and the US Army data sheet just says 20 pellets (doesn't give the size). [ http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.html ] is where the 2000 pellets came from. Is there a possibility that one of the XM576s used 00 or #4 and the standardized M576 was different? -- Thatguy96 16:03, 3 May 2006

The XM576E1, which became the M576, used 20 #4 Buck. The XM576E2 used 27 #4 Buck. The latter was considered to spread too quickly. This resulted from the manner in which the shot was packaged. M576/XM576E1 had the shot layered in a small shot cup inside a larger sabot. XM576E2 had the shot in a single layer covering a case-width shot cup. FWIW: Jane's Infantry Weapons confirms 20 pellets for M576/XM576E1. --D.E. Watters 21:09, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

it is not #4 buck, because there are 27 pellets(of #4 buck) in a 12 gauge shell.71.145.132.120 16:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very little volume in the M576 is used for the buckshot. The sabot/shotcup takes up most of the space. D.E. Watters 16:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, if you look at the design of the cartridge, its basically a 12 gauge cup in a 40mm adapter. -- Thatguy96 17:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m576.htm "Later in the war this was replaced by the M576 buckshot round. Containing twenty-seven 00 buckshot, this round was devastating at close ranges. The pellets cast a cone of fire 98 feet (30 m) wide and 98 feet high and travel at 882 feet per second (269 mps)."22:10, 19 April 2007 (UTC)71.145.132.120 http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.html Third one down

NAVSEA SW010-AD-GTP-010 SMALL ARMS AND SPECIAL WARFARE AMMUNITION, 18 May 2004

5-2.6. Cartridge, 40 Millimeter, Multiple Projectile, M576 (B534).

5-2.6.2. Description. The cartridge is 2.5 inches (6.35 centimeters) long and weighs approximately 1,882.46 grains (122 grams). It is a fixed round of ammunition consisting of an MP assembly and a cartridge case assembly. The projectile contains a polyethylene sabot carrier with a center cavity that contains a plastic pellet cup filled with twenty 20-grain (1.30-gram) lead pellets and covered by a snap-on cap. The cartridge case contains a 2.87 grain (186 milligram), M2 propellant charge and a .45 caliber percussion primer. It is green with white stenciled identification markings.

Note that it says that M576 holds "twenty 20 grain lead pellets." 00 Buckshot weighs close to 54gr per pellet. On the other hand, #4 Buck is very close in weight to 20gr. As for the XM576E2, I can't see any way to arrange 27 pellets of 00 Buck in a single layer that will fit in a 40mm circle. D.E. Watters 16:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

look at [1] it says "this was replaced by the M576 buckshot round" #4 is not called buck shot, and besides you have only cited one site where I have cited 4 71.145.132.120 22:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Except the 4 you cited are not the official NAVSEA manual. I'd trust that above everything else. Gary's page says it has "2,000" pellets, which already makes his entry on the round suspect in my opinion, and the Global Security Entry is based on the old FAS one that hasn't been updated in forever. Also, where are you getting this that only 00 shot is called buckshot? Even if it is, the term Buckshot is not part of the official US military designation for the round, nor does any official entry make use of the term. People use the term because of the semantic associations with the term. I still highly doubt that buckshot is still somehow reserved for 00. -- Thatguy96 22:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is #4 Shot (0.13") and #4 Buck (0.24"). #4 Buck is the smallest common size of buckshot. D.E. Watters 01:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin Dockery's Weapons of the Navy Seals on p. 410 and 411 says the load of the XM576E1 was 20 #4 buckshot 0.24in (6mm diameter) and the load of the XM675E2 was 27 #4 Buckshot 0.24in (6mm diameter). Buckshot comes multiple sizes from 000 to 4. Look at the Wikipedia shotgun shell entry. Pettifogger 05:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

it doesnt matter if it is old because the 203 does not shoot it. i am pretty sure that the 203 was issued before the internet was popular 71.145.132.120 17:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

self-explanitory?

The description of the XM688 states "The usage of such a device is relatively self-explanitory, but the actual combat applications of such a "weapon" must be relatively limited." Well, it isn't self-explanitoty unless you already know a lot about grenades. I have no idea what the XM688 is or why it is unique or specailized based on the text. Someone who knows should make a bit more verbose of a description.

That because the XM688 isn't a grenade at all. It is a round of ammunition and it fits in a 40mm grenade launcher, but the similarity ends there. The XM688 cartridge fires a rocket motor, that's the entire projectile. The round is loaded into the breech of the weapon and then a long grappling hook with a cup at the base is slid down the barrel. A line is attached to a link on the body of the hook that slides along the body as it flies through the air to maintain stability in flight. Pulling the trigger on the grenade launcher (the XM688 will work in either the M79 or M203, but the preferred weapon is the M79 as the muzzle is clear of any obstructions that the grappling hook could hang up on) fires the round, igniting the rocket motor. The motor pushes the grappling hook up into the air the line trailing along behind it.

The rounds (6) were issued in a kind of kit bag that included the grappling hook, line, links and other accessories. It was tested in the early 1970s but never issued in any numbers to speak of.70.106.151.93 15:29, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

xm1060

there a thermobaric 40mm for urban and cave warfare it's called the xm1060

Yeah, its there. I'm pretty sure its been standardized, but if not I'll go and change it from M1060 to XM1060 for the time being. -- Thatguy96 14:26 6 June 2006

Many Issues

Although I lack the knowledge to fix this article, I hope it is useful for me to point out some problems. --It dicusses the rounds used for automatic weapons alongside the rounds used by individual weapons. They are not interchangable. --There is no discussion of the timeline of these weapons. --The article is shot full of weseal words. An encyclopedia ought to be authoritative. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 11:19, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]