Talk:White Council

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It is probable that the other uses section is better in some other context, but there is a 'name space collision' here, so something needs be done. Perhaps a pointer to another article? ww 17:21, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Lordess of the Ring, the info you are putting is already in the article: "The White Council's head was the Wizard Saruman the White, (although Galadriel wished for Gandalf the Grey to be made the leader)." And if you commit changes, please use correct English. Thank you, Bryan 14:56, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


Is this still a stub? Is there other information to be added? ▫ Urbane Legend talk 14:25, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

There is still more which could be added, references for instance, but I don't think this is a stub any more. --CBD 00:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Members of the first White Council[edit]

How can the members of the first White Council be "mostly the same as [those of] the Second" if the wizards haven't even arrived in Middle Earth yet?
-- Thomas 15:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


Radagast was not a member of the White Council. A list of names is given in the Silmarillion and only Gandalf and Saruman are mentioned. Radagast helped Saruman in his role as member, but that is not the same thing. Although it may seem strange to exclude a wizard from the council, it was obviously felt that Radagast had no skill in politics or war and he is portrayed as having far less power then either Gandalf or Saruman. I'm going to correct the article. Neelmack (talk) 21:24, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Removal of White Council fan board[edit]

Wikipedia is not a tool for self promotion. "I'm thinking maybe this will be good for us - give us some more press mayhaps." Rather than even a brief mention (which would still have been inappropriate), a long ad for the entire fansite was written, nearly as long as the section on the Second White Council itself. If you want, add a link to your fansite on Tolkien fandom (an article which I originated in the Elder Days...).--Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 11:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Agree. This was blatant spam. Bryan 19:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, sir. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 12:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a tool for self promotion? What universe do you live in? If your intent is to say it's not SUPPOSED to be a tool for self promotion, you are correct. 21:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

You won't win people over with an improper attitude like that. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 21:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

(sigh) from the link above; "IT GOT REMOVED!! Someone else post something again! We have to make it stick!!" Well, I'll have to put this page on my Watchlist. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 21:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


On what basis do we say that Thranduil, of all people, is a possible member, but that Celeborn is "generally considered" not to have been one. Thranduil was pretty clearly not present at the White Council meeting in 2941, since he was chilling in his halls, keeping the Dwarves prisoner, and seems to have no involvement in the attack on Dol Guldur, which was apparently largely conducted by Lórien elves. john k 04:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Saruman and the "long defeat", "are said"[edit]

Is Unfinished Tales the source for the statement Saruman headed the Council "against the wishes of Galadriel, who later described this as the beginning of the long defeat"? The phrase "long defeat" appears in the cited chapter of LotR, but with no connection to Saruman.

Also, the article reads, "Other possible members are said to be among the mightiest of Elves…" Said by critics, fans, or Tolkien? This needs to be made explicit, and if the answer is not Tolkien, a source would be great. —JerryFriedman (talk) 02:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)