Talk:Word of Life Fellowship

Cleanup needed

Article looks messy. Needs wikifying, categorizing, etc. Perhaps it should also be moved or renamed. Currently, Word of Life (small "o", which seems to be the correct spelling [1]) is a redirect to Livets Ord. Entheta 23:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I've reworked the entire article, trying to give it NPOV, remove unnecessary information, make it encyclopedic, rearrange to a more logical order, add a few links, and just generally polish up the writing. I'd love for someone else to have a look and see what I've missed; I think after it goes past a few sets of eyes it might actually be a decent article. Most importantly, it still needs several citations (some places tagged, some not).--edi 07:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks edi --Edmundosargento (talk) 09:27, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I've done another touch-up of this article. Lots of people had changed things and over time it got a little shuffled around. I just reorganized it so the right stuff is in the right place, and fixed a couple of mechanics errors (grammar, punctuation, stuff like that), nothing very earth-shaking.

Just for the record, I've also moved a couple of things here (on the talk page), specifically moving two comments from this section to more appropriate places so that they're easier to find: one to a new section ("Wheaton archives are extensive") for discussion of Jack Wyrtzen and one to the "Redirects and Disambig." section below. I didn't change any of their text except for repositioning one link in the Wyrtzen section (as noted below the affected post) for the sake of clarity. I certainly don't mean any harm by these changes and if anyone is bothered by them, by all means feel free to change them back. Thanks! -- edi(talk) 23:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Wheaton archives are extensive

(moved from "Cleanup needed" section above by edi(talk) 23:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)):

http://www.rumneybible.org/about/history.php Jack Wyrtzen and Billy Graham.

If one google's Jack Wyrtzen and "Youth for Christ" you get an infinite number of hits. Anyway I found this 60 year old Time magazine article that mentions Jack Wyrtzen, there is so much stuff out there. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,776614,00.html

Document Wyrtzen in long line of evangelists this last century from Billy Sunday. He first filled Madison Square Garden. He worked with the Navigators, he founded Mission groups to other nations that are still extant. He was a TV pioneer, as well as being on secular radio, WWOR. Wyrtzen warrants own page; the book "The House that Jack Built" is corroborated by the Wheaton archives. Edsargento —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edsargento (talk • contribs) 02:06, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I created this section and moved the above post here for the sake of clarity. I did not change any text but did remove extra spaces between lines and moved the Time link from before the sentence that mentions it to after the sentence, again for the sake of clarity.

Redirects and Disambig.

I believe it would be more logical to create a disambiguation page for both spellings of Word Of Life. I'll go ahead and do this in a few days if no one objects. this note will be left on both pages. --Master Runner 22:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

How about renaming the Word Of Life to Word of Life Fellowship which seems to be their name according to their website [2], make Word of Life a disambiguation page linking to that article and this one? Entheta 19:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC) (this message has been posted on both discussion pages).

Though registered as Word Of Life Fellowship almost no one associated refers to them as that. In that case most people looking for information would search for Word Of Life or Word of Life. a disambiguation page is a very smart idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.220.146.156 (talk • contribs)

Yes a disambig page would probably be the best idea. But when a disambiguation page is made on Word of Life, this article needs to be renamed since Word Of Life is just too similar to Word of Life, IMO (my suggestion is redirecting Word Of Life to a disambig page at Word of Life), and for that, Word of Life Fellowship might be a good title. Entheta 13:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

(moved from "Cleanup needed" section above by edi(talk) 23:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC) for the sake of clarity): Agree it should not be a redirect to the Swedish name as they internationally call themselves Word of Life. Their international logo only states Word of Life, it does not include fellowship when I've encountered it. Lindacse 22:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

As someone who has been associated with Word of Life and attended their camps and such, I agree that Word of Life Fellowship is a more appropriate title for this article, with a disambiguation page Word of Life pointing to both this article and the Swedish church mentioned above. Additionally, it's worth noting that many components of this organization, such as its missions, its camps and its Bible institutes, are commonly referred to simply as "Word of Life" unless there's a specific need to distinguish between them. -- Oregongirl0407 20:33, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Obvious NPOV Violation

The article reads almost like a pamphlet for the organization. There are numerous uses of the First Person, and certain words are emphasized. Moreover, some of the wording used sounds like a promotion. Obviously, this article needs to be totally revised and given an NPOV. Kazhivlad 08:24, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

89.132.60.228

I removed an edit by this user (see history) because it was unnecessary and didn't make much sense in context. He/She added a sentence disputing the number of people who have attended Word of Life's dramatic presentations, but the previous sentence already says that the organization "claims" that the number is correct, and there is already a {{fact}} tag on the sentence. It's therefore already clear that the claim is disputed (or at least questionable), and the added sentence simply created a POV statement within the article. I felt it was inappropriate, but certainly I'm willing to consider other points of view on the question. --edi 22:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Production #s from a former staffer

I worked in the WOL Gospel Productions ticket office for a year and a half when they were doing "Passion Play" instead of "Jesus--Behold the Man". We averaged at least 25,000 tickets sold between the two shows each year. With JBtM being new and even better than PP, I have no doubt that they could be seeing 35,000 people each year, but I changed the article to 25,000 just to be safe.

And for the record, if you haven't seen those shows, you should try to. They are AMAZING. I sometimes worked at the ticket booth in the foyer of the auditorium and we had so many people say, "This is better than some of the Broadway shows I've seen!" Having seen four Broadway shows myself, I can attest that these are absolutely on par with them. And the tickets are about 1/3 of the price of a Broadway show! Kimana517 03:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Definitely not an objective historical account

I am in agreement with the 06 posting that this is basically material lifted from promotional materials for the organization. Nothing I know of that is untrue but there is no attempt at an objective history. I started Bible Institutes for Word of Life in Australia (February, 1975 thru December, 1978) and the Philippines (January, 1980 thru June 1986) and was director of the Philippines branch from July, 1986 thru July, 1993. Having fallen out of favor with the leadership and having resigned from the mission in 1993, my personal history and contributions have been largely expunged from their formal records. And that is fine and their prerogative. However there are many other former staff members who have made extremely significant contributions over the years that are conveniently forgotten when they too have fallen out of favor. Having made this point, I am not sure that an objective history of the organization would be of any significant interest for research purposes anyway. Yet it does leave us with the consideration that this posting appears to exist for primarily promotional purposes. --Jcorbinmauk (talk) 08:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Jcorbinmauk. I agree that this article is a bit one-sided, but I don't know of any secondary sources that present opposing views. If you know of any sources (other than your own experiences, which would constitute original research and therefore isn't allowed here), I'd love for you to add the information and cite the sources. I think it's extremely important to maintain a neutral perspective and present all sides of all stories. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help you with this. -- edi(talk) 23:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

The Organization is so interesting, yet like any other

Christian organizations, secular colleges, companies, banks all have history. And people who are in and out. I just think Jack was important to 20th century American history. --Edmundosargento (talk) 00:30, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

There may be a lot of parallels

Between Word Of Life, and what has been going on for years at Westminster Seminary or Cedarville University or what played out or is doing so now in the Fundemetnalist/Evangelical or Emerging Church movements and backlashes --Edmundosargento (talk) 16:12, 1 February 2009 (UTC)