Talk:Xiao (mythology)/Talk Archive from "Hsigo"

"Hsigo", the viral OCR typo

Uh oh, this "Hsigo" article is based upon a mistake rather than a Chinese word. Wade-Giles hsi corresponds to Pinyin xi, but neither transliteration system has go; the closest would be WG kou (P gou). Chinese has a few words pronounced hsi-kou or xigou, such as 細狗 "greyhound", but no monkeys.

Since a few sources like Monstropedia note an alternate "Hsiao" spelling for "Hsigo", it appears that hsigo is a Google Books optical character recognition a=g misreading of WG hsiao (P xiao). Other examples include hsigo-hufi for hsiao-hua 笑話 "joke" and Teng Hsigo-p'ing for Teng Hsiao-p'ing. Google Books not only misreads "hsigo" for Chinese words, but also HSIGO for Japanese HEIGO and Victor Hsigo for French Victor Hugo.

From Google Books and Wikipedia, this "Hsigo" error has spread widely. Google Images finds many imaginative Hsigo monkeys, including this one with glasses. YouTube has a Hsigo figurine video, made for a Kickstarter project that promises, "At $33,000 we will unlock the TYPE 1 Hsigo". Hsigo is a common username for gamers. There were monkey-man characters named Hsigo in the Andromeda TV series "Last Call at the Broken Hammer" (2001) and the TV movie "Flying Monkeys" (2013). Whitepages.com finds people named Hsigo Hwang, Hsigo Ai, and Sammy Hsigo.

Getting back to possible mythological "hsigo"=hsiao simians, the Chinese WP lists feihou 飛猴 or飞猴 (lit. "flying monkey") as an alternate name for the Baimian sengmianhou 白面僧面猴 "White-faced saki" and Dian jinsihou 滇金丝猴 "Black snub-nosed monkey", neither of which is called hsiao or xiao.

The current article's sole reference (Companion for the Apprentice Wizard 2006) gives "Hsigo", possibly deriving from an antecedent (Symbolic and Mythological Animals 1992). The earliest example is an 1877 French book that gives P.hsigo for Passage. GB also reveals a "book" called Chinese Mythology: Fucanglong …, which a greedhead "publisher" copied from WP articles (including erroneous Hsigo, in full-circle irony).

Anyway, we could transform or merge this article into exemplifying what Geoffrey Nunberg calls the "metadata train wreck" of Google Books. Or perhaps we should submit it to WP:AfD. Keahapana (talk) 21:47, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

@Keahapana: I vote for transformation. PLEASE rewrite is as a version of your ↑↑ comment!

I followed Victor Mair's link here, and I'm guessing that you're the "top Wikipedia editor who is endeavoring to liquidate that totally fictitious article". The unknowledge is out there now and can't be recalled. If the article's deleted, sooner or later someone will re-create it. But if there's an article here debunking it knowledgeably and checkably, as you are doing, that will be a push in the right direction. --Thnidu (talk) 01:02, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Yep, guilty as anon, I sometimes send interesting WP links to Victor – but I'd say more of a middling editor. (Are WP contributors divisible between "tops" and "bottoms"?) We might be able to move the current page and use this material. What should the new title be? Best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 02:26, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

[LL follower here, too.] I'm not convinced we should keep the article. A Google search reveals that LL seems to be the only RS discussing the Hsigo phenomenon - the rest are wikis, Wikipedia mirrors and suchlike. I don't think it passes WP:GNG. (though I'd like to be proved wrong - this is quite an interesting story, as is anything that gets posted by Prof. Mair on LL!) Kayau (talk · contribs) 09:57, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

If it's worth anything, I too feel that this fails the notability guideline and should just be plainly deleted.--ɱ (talk) 16:45, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree as well. If this nonsense hasn't reached the mass-acceptance level that would force Wikipedia to deal with it, I don't see why we should add to its visibility. Languagehat (talk) 23:49, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree, this page is a mistake and should be deleted from WP. I'm not familiar with the AfD process, would someone like to submit it? Since it looks like "Hsigo" may come from Hsiao/Xiao 囂, I started a new Xiao (mythology) article, and if we ever find Cooper's source we could add the "Hsigo" silliness into it. Thanks to everyone for helping, Keahapana (talk) 22:13, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

 Done; incidentally, could you add inline citations to the article? They're now a DYK requirement and the article should be eligible for DYK after adding those. ;) Kayau (talk · contribs) 03:08, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

• I once had a hsigo fly out my butt. KlingonHeaven (talk) 05:33, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Kayau, however the Xiao article already has WP:INCITE inline citations, it just doesn't have sucky footnotes. For those of us WP editors who dislike the footnoting format, the new DYK requirement doesn't make <ref-ing> more desirable, it makes DYK more irrelevant <grin>. Keahapana (talk) 20:53, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Go figure

I found a curious "Hsigo"—Hsiao connection. If you try rewording Cooper's original 1992 "man's face, a monkey's body, and wings" description and Google: wings human face monkey body, it leads to the WP article for Borges' Book of Imaginary Beings: "Hsiao An owl-like creature with a man's face, an ape's body, and a dog's tail." The English translation (Sis & Hurley, 2005, n.p. in Amazon Books) says, "The Hsiao is a bird similar to a hawk, but it has the head of a man, the body of a monkey, and the tail of a dog." Keahapana (talk) 20:54, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Then I think there should be no further doubts regarding the hsigo-hsiao connection. :P If this article is deleted, we should probably redirect this to your new Xiao page since it's what they're actually looking for. Kayau (talk · contribs) 01:13, 20 October 2013 (UTC)