Talk:XxxHolic

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Manga for everyone?[edit]

I know this is listed as a "seinen" title, but is it true that the audience for it is mainly girls? Something about the art style seems to suggest it. 124.33.97.18 18:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to know! It looks interesting but I don't want kids laughing at me while I read it on the train. Dekimasu 02:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
I personally think this is a manga for anybody to enjoy. If you want to read it, read it. I read it and enjoy it myself and see nothing that would lead me to believe it's favored towards boys or girls. --Sir VG 04:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Young Magazine, the Magazine that it is published in is a magizine primarily read by men in their late teens and early 20s. While I believe that this manga has a larger female fanbase, it can easily be assumed that men are the target. I am not convinced that this is a Seinen manga. I could have sworn it was shojo... - 69.244.100.206 (talk) 03:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

A series' demographic is determined by the magazine it's serialized in, not the audience it is (or is perceived to be) intended for. ダイノガイ?!」(Dinoguy1000) 22:59, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

xxxHolic OSTs?[edit]

Does xxxHolic have any OSTs? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.151.195 (talk) 18:54, April 17, 2007 (UTC)

This page is not for discussion of "xxxHolic", it is for discussion of the "xxxHolic" article. Please direct your question somewhere where it is more appropriate. Thank you.  :-) -- HiEv 05:32, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

And, yes, it does. They should be listed, but are not. 195.194.75.209 (talk) 14:02, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Hitsuzen and Butterflies[edit]

Hitsuzen seems to be a concept that comprises causality, fate and destiny and so on. I'm just wondering whether it could also include the concept of the BUTTERFLY EFFECT. Somehow it seems related to Yuko's direct/indirect intervention on the wishes of her customers and situations going on in different plots throughout the Clampverse as I quote, "A result which can only be obtained by a single causality, and other causalities would necessarily create different results." It mirrors the Butterfly Effect concept. Or I could be overreaching. Any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.203.32 (talk) 23:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to say because at other times she also mentions about how things are destined to happen, like when Watanuki first came to her store. It sounds to me more like the meetings of individuals is destined, but the choices they make might not be. Of course I could be seeing it wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinnai (talkcontribs) 20:48, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I believe that differs significantly from the concept of the Butterfly Effect, which proposes causality at the hands of random chaotic events, no matter how insignificant. Not only does Yuko's use of the butterfly fit more with her concepts of gradual metamorphosis, but also, it would conflict with her own concepts of hitsuzen, in which there is only one way things can turn out, whereas chaos theory gives the idea that anything can cause great change, no matter what. And as for a Wiki page, it would be speculation at best, and Wiki standards do not allow for speculation and OR. For those reasons, I don't think it should be added to the Butterfly Effect.Luminum (talk) 07:41, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I concur. The general difference between the two is that Hitsuzen likens itself to inevitability. Events happen because there is no other outcome that could have happened. It is closer to destiny than causality, but without the general "invisible guiding hand" that destiny implies. Butterfly Effect seems to be more causality. If you put a drop of water on the very top of a pyramid shape, the Butterfly Effect would state that small instances of how it starts will determine which way it will slide down. Hitsuzen would more likely state that the mere choice of placing it atop that shape means it will end up at the bottom. StryyderG (talk) 17:22, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Hitsuzen is discussed to a certain degree in a translation note in one of the first few volumes of Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicle. That discussion could be used in the article, but not any conclusions you may draw concerning hitsuzen on this talk page (I'll have to see if I can find that translation note and then post it here for you). ダイノガイ?!」(Dinoguy1000) 18:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
"Hitsuzen. A naturally foreordained event. A state in which other outcomes are impossible. A result which can only be obtained by a single causality, and other causalities would necessarily create different results.", as defined by Yūko Ichihara in the first volume of xxxHolic, as well as the translation notes provided in the first volume of Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicle. Furthermore, as provided by Haruka Dômeki in the tenth volume of xxxHolic, "It means that everything that happens has a meaning..." If necessary, I can provide the full quote, though it's rather convoluted and redundant. Finally, the purpose for Yūko's connection with butterflies is introduced in the twelfth volume of xxxHolic, though I'm hesitant to quote the scene as it will spoil the plot. Again, I can provide the quote if necessary, but for now I will concede that it pertains to a concept of Taoism. -thb 02:13, 09 April 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.226.216.252 (talk)
For reference, if you add content into the article, you have to reference it and Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so "spoilers" are irrelevant.Luminum (talk) 16:39, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Tie Ins with non-Clamp series[edit]

While there is no real tie in with non-clamp related work, almost no chapter, and certainly no volume, goes without at least one reference to another non-clamp, usually older anime or manga. Considering Del Ray even goes to the extent in the back of their books to help point these out the reader I think some mention of them should be in. And this is almost as major part of the theme as the other references, though not sure if a it should be in the Tie In subsection or a new section should be added. We do not have to mention any of them specifically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinnai (talkcontribs) 08:49, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

butterfly effect[edit]

I removed:

Hitsuzen has been mentioned in Cardcaptor Sakura by Kaho Mizuki as she remarks that "there are no coincidences, only hitsuzen"

because it doesn't really seem relevant, and

It could also be interpreted as a form of determinism or a more pro-active form of the butterfly effect concept. More probably it might be an amalgam of those concepts.

because it's unsourced and I believe the author is using "butterfly effect" incorrectly. The butterfly effect specifically refers to a very minor change in cause creating an enormous variation in effect. Determinism or causality would be a better fit here, but since that would be both redundant and unsourced I just removed the line. Meliadoul (talk) 18:45, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Which Egg, which person?[edit]

"in episode 11, the egg given to Watanaki by Yuuko is the same egg retrived by Sakura from the caves in Tokyo Revelations OVA."

Perhaps my brain's a little scrambled (no pun originally intended), but I thought the egg that Yuuko gave to Watanuki (that would hatch into Tanpopo) was the one she received from Infinity -Sakura gave up her luck, and it turned into an egg! The egg that she received from Acid Tokyo, Yuuko gave to Doumeki!

I'll try and get round to looking into it, see if I'm actually wrong on that!

T3021 (talk) 01:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

HOLiC UK Release[edit]

Although there is no information on Manga Entertainment's website, they have technically confirmed that the first part of HOLiC is to be released, on 27 October 2008, in their August Newsletter:

The Mangazette 27.08.08 Issue: 37

As I didn't look at the address originally, I thought it was from someone who had hosted it on imageshack, and so I didn't use this as a reference, using UK Anime Net instead!

T3021 (talk) 13:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Lead section[edit]

I came to this page because a friend wanted to explain this series to me. However, I noticed there's a glaring deficiency: nowhere in the lead section does it say what the series is actually about. Someone needs to rectify this. Explain the premise in one or two sentences, that's all. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Holic redirect.[edit]

There is a game called Holic or Holic Online by Mgame/Netgame. Holic however automaticly redirects to xxxHolic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.77.255 (talk) 10:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Is it at all related to Xxxholic? Cause if it isn't we should just have that redirect deleted. --Kraftlos (Talk | Contrib) 12:13, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
More appropriate would be to see about turning it into a disambiguation page - there has to be more than just xxxHolic (this page), Holic (the game mentioned above), -holism (addiction), and Holism (the idea that a system is more than just the sum of its parts). ダイノガイ?!」(Dinoguy1000) 19:36, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
I can't find any reliable sources covering Holic Online, I'm thinking perhaps this isn't that big of an issue. I vote we do nothing, but I'm willing to reconsider though. --Kraftlos (Talk | Contrib) 21:47, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

archiving[edit]

I archived much of the older discussions on the page (2007 and before with no newer comments). Anything doing with the naming controversy I have archived separately so that it is easily accessible.じんない 09:09, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Hitsuzen as a concept[edit]

This article speaks of hitsuzen as if it's some special concept (without any citations might I add), but it's just a normal Japanese word that really does seem to just translate to "inevitability." According to the Meikyo Kokugo Jiten 必然 means 「必ずそうなること。それ以外にはなりようがないこと。」 ("Something that must be so. Something that wouldn't be able to be any other way."). The Digital Daijiten gives a similar definition: 「必ずそうなること。それよりほかになりようのないこと。また、そのさま。」 ("Something that must be so. Something for which there seems to be no alternative. Also, the state of being so."). This is corroborated by Wiktionary JP's definition of 「必ずそのようになること。」 ("Something that must be so.").

I am not a translator; my Japanese isn't even that good, but it seems to me like the whole bit about 必然 being untranslatable and a fundamentally different concept from any English equivalent is much ado about nothing. Am I missing something here? Reki (talk) 21:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

You're probably pretty much right. Hitsuzen as used in the manga might have some special connotation beyond its regular definition (and could thus be more difficult to satisfactorily translate), but it's far from "untranslatable". ダイノガイ?!」(Dinoguy1000) 16:56, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I chalk it up to some undue sort of "reverence" to foreign concepts or languages. But most likely this is triggered by the English publication's uses of "hitsuzen" rather than translating it to something like "destiny." I also think there was a translator's notes about the word and the interpretation of meaning in the same volume. Though Chinese and Japanese characters differ in ways ranging from not at all to massively, when I presented the character for Hitsuzen to my mother, her response was that she didn't understand what the big deal was, as all it meant was something that has to happen, like "it must be done" or a key "must" be turned to start the car.Luminum (talk) 17:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, there was a translator's note discussing "hitsuzen" in an early volume of Tsubasa (possibly vol. 1), but I've been lazy about finding it again. I have no idea if there's a similar note in any volume of xxxHolic (but given that Del Rey is doing both series, it wouldn't surprise me). ダイノガイ?!」(Dinoguy1000) 19:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
It may be that they felt that the words like "destiny" might not be strong enough, after all their are plenty of fictional works where someone fights off their "destiny". Inevitability/Inevitable probably just didn't sound that good. Ultimately this would be something we'd need Del Ray to officially comment on as to why.じんない 21:33, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
The first time Yūko mentions hitsuzen, she defines it. Yūko has a habit of inserting dictionary quotes into her speech, and this is hers for hitsuzen: ""Hitsuzen"... A naturally fore-ordained event. A state in which other outcomes are impossible. A result which can only be obtained by a single causality, and other causalities would necessarily create different results. So reads... ...the Kodansha Japanese Desk Dictionary, Second Edition." as printed in xxxHoLic volume 1, Tanoshimi edition (which are basically the Del Rey editions reprinted on worse quality paper, with no colour pages). And "『必然(ヒツゼン)』 当然そうあるべきこと。 それ以外の在り方では、在り得ないごと。 ある現象からそうあるより他にありようのない他の現象が起こること。 以上 講談社・国語辞典デスク版第二版より" from the Kodansha Deluxe Version, First Edition. Akata (talk) 04:28, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Slight change in name.[edit]

The recent scans of xxxHolic from Japan show that xxxHolic has had a slight name change to "xxxHolic Rō", which seems to have been added and then reverted back in the article.(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=XxxHolic&diff=prev&oldid=314556888)

While it isn't precisely a sequel, (more like a name change to indicate changes in the series) shouldn't it be important enough to add in somewhere in the article? (I have no idea on how or where to add it.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.186.12.226 (talk) 08:42, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I was the one who reverted its addition, because I don't keep up with the manga (not because I don't want to, but my library system is missing volumes and I don't skip volumes when I read series T_T ), so I had no idea the name changed. User:Akata explained this to me on my talk page, but nothing else has come of it so far. ダイノガイ千?!? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 20:11, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Timeline of xxxHOLiC and Tsubasa[edit]

In volume 13, at the last chapter, Mokona the black says to Yuko: "Does it mean that time and space are beginning to crumble?" She agrees. I have to say this must be CLAMP's excuse why Tsubasa and xxxHOLiC are not up in the same pace. Technically, xxxHOLiC starts off just a bit earlier than Tsubasa. When it comes to volume 9 of xxxHOLiC, Tsubasa has already elapsed to 18 and 19 chapters, as said by the translator's note about Sakura being in dreams. This may be the case, but it may also end up being vice versa, but that's highly unlikely also. Peroxideprince (talk) 12:18, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Translator's note?

Anyway, Tsubasa shows in places that among different worlds time flows differently. One feather lost by Sakura just days or weeks ago after transferring into another world hundreds of years had elapsed in that world's time before the Tsubasa group arrived. That quote about "Time and Space" links to somewhere about volume 24 or 25 in Tsubasa, I'm not sure exactly. Still, the two do cross over at the same relative time in both, just a lot less of xxxHoLic is published. In the two stories, events happen in both stories on chapters released in the same week in Japan, for example the chapters of Tsubasa and xxxHoLic featuring the 'magic words' were released on the same day in Japan, despite there being a difference in the volume numbers the two chapters are collected in. As such there is not a one-one correlation between the two volume-wise. The official known links up to Tsubasa volume 11 shown in the Caractère Guides are as such; Tsubasa 1 and xxxHoLic 1/2, T3&H3, T5/6&H4, T8&H5, T10&H6, T11&H7. Akata (talk) 15:43, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

More reception.[edit]

The Hooded Utilitarian a blog backed by The Comics Journal had a round table around xxxholic. see All the posts bottom post is the first one. Chronologicaly post by post [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]

Comment Around 10 Comics/Manga RS critics/reviewers made a post or comment in this round table. --KrebMarkt 20:48, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

--KrebMarkt (talk) 07:14, 28 November 2010 (UTC)