Talk:Yiewsley F.C.

== Transferring of Yiewsley F.C. information from the Hillingdon Borough F.C. page to the Yiewsley F.C. page ==

Dear fellow Wikipedians, especially Number 57 and ChrisTheDude,

On 2 July 2023, after considered planning, I transferred Yiewsley Football Club’s (Yiewsley F.C.) Wikipedia information from the Hillingdon Borough F.C. page to the unpopulated Yiewsley F.C. page. In addition I added to this information many more hours of my research into Yiewsley F.C. from the British Newspaper Archive.

I did this change without further consultation. If this was wrong, I fully apologise. I did carefully reflect on whether consultation was required, but I mistakenly concluded that moving the now comprehensive Yiewsley F.C information to the Yiewsley F.C. Wikipedia page would be unanimously welcomed, a so called ‘no-brainer’ and perhaps I would be thanked for my efforts.

This change was obviously not welcomed by Number 57 as on 14 July 2023 he transferred most of the Yiewsley F.C. information to the Hillingdon Borough F.C Wikipedia article, clearing the Yiewsley F.C. article and reinserting the redirect to the Hillingdon Borough F.C. article. The Yiewsley F.C. infobox I created and Yiewsley club Colours and Crest information and graphics were removed.

I am very disappointed by the actions of Number 57 to revert my work. He stated in the Yiewsley F.C. Wikipedia page that Yiewsley F.C ‘should not be a separate article’. I disagree and I will hopefully give Number 57 a clear account of why the Yiewsley F.C. information should be a separate article.

Reasoning for the transfer of the Yiewsley F.C. information the Yiewsley F.C. Wikipedia page.

The Hillingdon Borough F.C. Wikipedia page is a fudge between the football clubs of two separate and unconnected villages, Yiewsley and Ruislip. The Yiewsley club teams being Yiewsley F.C. which became Hillingdon Borough F.C. and the Ruislip club team’s lineage being Ruislip Town which became Ruislip F.C, which in turn became Ruislip Park F.C. and then Hillingdon Borough F.C.1990. The two Hillingdon Borough clubs are not related.

In 2005 the Hillingdon Borough F.C. Wikipedia page was initially written with regard to the Yiewsley club with only a footnote to Hillingdon Borough 1990 club of Ruislip. However, the article was very quickly turned around so that it was primarily regarding Hillingdon Borough 1990. This remains very much so today with the introduction and infobox showing the Hillingdon Borough 1990 club’s information.

Background to my work editing Yiewsley F.C information in Wikipedia.

In November 2020 when I first started editing the Yiewsley F.C. Wikipedia information in the Hillingdon Borough F.C. page there were few facts regarding the club and the FA Cup information was incorrect: As the Wikipedia article was about the two Hillingdon Borough teams’ little effort had been made to expand the Yiewsley F.C. information:

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13th January 2005 – Hillingdon Borough first entry - Yiewsley information:

Formerly known as Yiewsley FC, and founded in 1872 they played in various amateur leagues until they turned semi-professional and joined the Southern League in 1958. Their most noteworthy achievement until that point was holding third division Gillingham to a 2-2 draw on their home ground in the first round proper of the 1955-56 FA Cup. Jackie Milburn (Newcastle and England) also played for the club briefly when he retired from professional football in the early 60's.

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On 15 March 2009 the article’s Yiewsley information was as follows:

The first club was originally founded as Yiewsley F.C. in 1872, and played on a small area of open ground in Falling Lane, Yiewsley, in the London Borough of Hillingdon. In 1951 they were one of the 14 clubs who founded the Delphian League and in the 1953/54 season were promoted to the Corinthian League, which they topped in their third season, 1956/57. In 1958 a decision was made to turn semi-professional, and the club joined the South-East zone of the Southern League. Their most noteworthy achievement until that point was holding Third Division Gillingham to a 2–2 draw on their home ground in the first round proper of the 1956–57 FA Cup. Jackie Milburn (formerly of Newcastle and England) also played for the club briefly when he retired from professional football in the early 1960s.

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By 31 October 2020 the information had hardly changed, just incorrect FA Cup information added:

The first club was founded as Yiewsley F.C. in 1872, and played on a small area of open ground in Falling Lane, Yiewsley, in [[Middlesex].The club made its debut in the FA Cup in the 1939–40 season, losing to Maidenhead United in the extra preliminary qualification round In 1951 they were one of the 14 clubs who founded the Delphian League two seasons later at the end of the 1953–54 campaign they moved to the Corinthian League, which they topped in their third season, 1956–57. In 1958 a decision was made to turn semi-professional, and the club joined the South-East zone of the [[Southern Football League|Southern LeagueTheir most noteworthy achievement until that point was holding Third Division Gillingham to a 2–2 draw on their home ground in the first round proper of the 1956–57 FA Cup. Jackie Milburn (formerly of Newcastle and England) also played for the club briefly when he retired from professional football in the early 1960s.

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This of course could be considered too little information to warrant a Wikipedia page on its own and in 2011 Number 57 had placed a ‘redirect’ on the Yiewsley F.C article which served to direct people searching for information on Yiewsley F.C. to this information in the Hillingdon Borough F.C. page.

From 1 November 2020, through many hours of researching newspaper articles through the British Newspaper archive website I expanded the Yiewsley F.C information significantly. I have also visited Uxbridge Library and researched the reference copy of Leigh Edwards, David Shute and Mike Hunter's 2000 book ‘Yiewsley F.C. & Hillingdon Borough Football Club. The Complete Illustrated History [1872 to 1985] & Re-formation in 1990.

By June 2023 the information I had accumulated in the Hillingdon Borough page regarding Yiewsley F.C. was significantly more than the two Hillingdon Borough entities put together and I intended to add more Yiewsley F.C. information. I came to the conclusion that the Yiewsley F.C. information should be in its own Wikipedia page.

Reasons why the Yiewsley F.C. information should be a separate Wikipedia page:

1. Yiewsley F.C. was formed in 1872 and was in existence for 92 years. It is one of the oldest football clubs in England. I have researched enough information to form a comprehensive article in its own right.

2. There is no reason in Wikipedia not to have separate pages for Yiewsley F.C and Hillingdon Borough (1964). There are many examples in Wikipedia where football clubs have changed due to renaming, liquidation or mergers and there are separate Wikipedia pages for two football club entities. I have listed below a small selection below of English football clubs which have at least two Wikipedia pages in their history:

• Bedfont F.C. (1900) and Bedfont F.C.
• Berkhamsted Town F.C. and Berkhamsted F.C
• Bexley F.C and Bexley United F.C
• Blakenall F.C. and Bloxwich United F.C
• Boston Town F.C (1920s) and Boston United F.C.
• Bloxwich Town F.C and Bloxwich United F.C
• Burton Swifts F.C. and Burton Wanderers F.C and Burton United F.C. and Burton Albion F.C.
• Chesham Town F.C. and Chesham United F.C.
• Chester City F.C and Chester F.C.
• Dover F.C. and Dover Athletic F.C.
• Eltham Place F.C. and Stansfeld F.C
• Havant Town F.C. and Havant & Waterlooville F.C.
• Hayes F.C and Hayes & Yeading F.C.
• Hereford Town F.C and Hereford F.C
• Ruislip Town F.C. and Ruislip F.C.
• Waterlooville F.C. and Havant & Waterlooville F.C.
• Whyteleafe F.C. and AFC Whyteleafe F.C.
• Windsor & Eton F.C and Windsor F.C (2011)
• Windsor Home Park F.C. and Windsor F.C (1882)
• Yeading F.C. and Hayes & Yeading F.C

3. In the case Yiewsley F.C. and Hillingdon Borough F.C. 1990, these clubs are not related at all. Hillingdon Borough 1990 of Ruislip was formed in 1990 by the renaming of Ruislip Park F.C., whose lineage was the Ruislip F.C and Ruislip Town. Hillingdon Borough 1990 has no history with Yiewsley F.C. It should also be noted that Ruislip Town F.C. and Ruislip F.C. have their own Wikipedia pages.

Summary

Yiewsley F.C is one of the oldest Football clubs in England and existed for 92 years. It should have its long history in its own Wikipedia page. There is no reason for the Yiewsley F.C. Wikipedia information not to be in its own and separate article from Hillingdon Borough F.C. (1964) which replaced it. There are many examples in Wikipedia of this format, with clear links between the two articles.

Hillingdon Borough F.C. 1990’s predecessors, Ruislip Town F.C. and Ruislip F.C have their own Wikipedia pages. There is no reason why Yiewsley F.C. should not have its own page.

There is no shared history between Yiewsley F.C. and Hillingdon Borough 1990.

I very much can appreciate Number 57’s tremendous contribution to Wikipedia, but I believe he reverted my work on 14 July 2023 without having the full information available to him.

I hope my explanation here clarifies the intention of my amendments and that Yiewsley F.C. should have its own Wikipedia page.

Best wishes, Jones44444 (talk) 15:17, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Contrary to one of your claims above, the renaming of a club is not a valid reason to have a separate article. We do not have part of Manchester City's history at Ardwick or Leicester's at Leicester Fosse. Therefore there is no justification to have an article on Yiewsley. The name change rationale also falls apart when you consider that the club went through several different names (Yiewsley Rangers, Yiewsley Unity and Yiewsley Star).

Some articles are indeed split when a club is dissolved and then re-established. But in many (I suspect most), the histories are kept in a single article – prominent examples being Newport County or Darlington. Many of the examples you have given above are where two notable clubs have merged into one (which is a valid reason for separate articles) or are completely separate clubs with different names, and therefore not relevant to this discussion.

In summary, there may be a justification for splitting the article between Hillington Borough F.C. (1872) (covering the history from 1872 to 1985 when the original club ceased to exist) and Hillingdon Borough F.C. (covering from 1990 onwards). However, I don't see how this would benefit readers. Given there is some continuity between the original and modern club (in the form of several directors), I think having a single article is reasonable. Number 57 01:10, 5 August 2023 (UTC)