The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
There appears to be a copyright issue with the Epsom Derby image.
Problem with the pic? Not sure what the issue is. Anyway, when it comes to MainPage, my policy is "if in doubt, leave it out." But there should not be any reason to take it off the article. Fair use should be justifiable. --PFHLai (talk) 05:52, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
I took great pains to find that your expansion is almost 7 fold. (hee hee). I will continue the review if the image thing is not an issue. I love the topic and both hooks, especially #2. --Ishtar456 (talk) 02:15, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
The image has been there since 2007 and it's one of the few things left from the article before I expanded it. I'm going to take it out and put in a non-copyright pic of the horse's owner, Harry McCalmont. I think the second hook is better as it's more unusual: could I suggest that you add "...which stood for more than thirty twenty years"? (although admittedly that bit comes from an off-line print source). Tigerboy1966 02:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Another issue: The wording in the first sentences of the Background section: "Isinglass was powerfully-built bay horse standing 16 hands high, bred by his owner Harry McCalmont. He was sired by the double Ascot Gold Cup winner Isonomy out of a mare named Deadlock."
Should be: "Isinglass was powerfully-built bay horse standing 16 hands high. Bred by his owner Harry McCalmont, he was sired by the double Ascot Gold Cup winner Isonomy out of a mare named Deadlock." Don't you think?
I cannot find citations for the hook. The hook is not explicitly stated. I cannot find a citation for the statement "sixth winner of the triple crown" nor can I find a citations for "was undefeated" Both statements are in the lead, but I could not find them in the body of the text.
the "undefeated" thing is in the body of the text. Every race that Isinglass ran in is supported by references, and he won all of them. The Triple Crown is explained in reference 46 Tigerboy1966 14:19, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
The more I think about it, the more I think this really does not meet the standard for citing the hook. 46 says "leading broodmare sire". In regard to the other, I know it can be inferred, but as I understand it, it needs to be explicit. Something like "That made him undefeated" (if that is what it says in the source). That is my understanding from passed reviews on my noms anyway. You can say "2+2" (with citations, of course) but unless the sources says it equals 4 you can't really say that it does, IMO. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.--Ishtar456 (talk) 19:19, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
see source 2 in lead. Tigerboy1966 17:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
I think it is time for a second opinion because that source says he won 11 of 12 starts (which is not the same as undefeated) and I still do not see a citation for "sixth winner" (as mentioned, ref. 46 says "leading broodmare sire"). I give up.--Ishtar456 (talk) 18:24, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
I added a ref that specifically uses the phrasing "Triple Crown" with Isinglass being the sixth horse listed. I agree with Ishtar that we can not call him undefeated because he did lose one race after winning the Triple Crown. How about:
Voila! I will sign off on this if the nom agrees to ALT 2.
Just to point out that the lead says that he was undefeated in his last two seasons which is true. Sorry to make such a fuss, but I need the Wikicup points. Tigerboy1966 00:01, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
I get that that is what the lead says, do you have a citation for it? Like I said before, it cannot be implied-it has to be cited. I also noticed that the same issue came up in a previous nom of yours on this page, so I'm really trying hard to explain what the problem is. My last edit to this page was lost, for some reason, but I said I would sign off on this is the nom agrees to the new hook. Or maybe I should defer to another reviewer. --Ishtar456 (talk) 00:12, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm fine with ALT2. I suggest mentioning "the Thoroughbred racehorse Isinglass..." or "the racehorse Isinglass..." Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 05:48, 3 March 2012 (UTC)