User:Vincent60030/Archive

Help on getting London Underground related books

Hey Ritchie! I live in Southeast Asia and it's a red tape to obtain London Underground related books, such as Badsey Ellis' book and Day's book which are available in the UK. Any suggestions to retrieve them more easily without paying through my nose? Thanks :) VKZY^LUFan (talk) (Mind the Gap!) 12:29, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

The easiest way is to visit London and pick them up in any number of bookshops! Iridescent has recently recommended Ian Allan Publishing next to Waterloo, though I've heard (including through that article) that they've stopped publishing since Allan's death, so I'm not sure if they're still there. There are companies like TransglobalExpress who can guarantee prompt delivery across the world, but I suspect they charge an arm and a leg. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 18:10, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Ian Allan was definitely still there as of two days ago. Robert Humm is very good for out-of-print material, and there's a surprising amount available on Amazon Marketplace—if you're in Asia and don't need the books urgently make sure you opt for surface delivery, as otherwise you'll end up paying more for the shipping than for the books. TfL's own bookshop is frustrating as they (a) keep changing what they stock and (b) are aimed primarily at people with no previous knowledge so what they stock tends to be quite simple, but often has some gems. Bear in mind that a lot of books about LT—particularly about the tube—are either written for tourists and both over-simple and riddled with errors, or are written for diehard trainspotters and have insane levels of detail. As a rough guide, anything published by Capital Transport will be excellent but expensive; anything published by Middleton Press will have pretty pictures and be scrupulously accurate but will be a bit short of detail; anything published by Oakwood will be mind-numbingly over-detailed; anything written by any one of Jim Connor, Antony Badsey-Ellis, Tim Demuth, Clive Foxell or Ken Garland will be of such high quality it will be the only source you need on its topic. ‑ Iridescent 18:23, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

@Ritchie333:, @Iridescent: Thanks for the kind advice. :) I haven't the heard of Clive Foxell and Tim Demuth though :/ VKZY^LUFan (talk) (Mind the Gap!) 18:26, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Tim Demuth was the designer of the original "London's Railways" map, which forms the basis of the present-day standard network map (and yes, the 1973 date is right; before this time it had never occurred to the authorities to show all the lines on a single diagram); Clive Foxell was Clive Foxell. ‑ Iridescent 19:51, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

I popped into Ian Allan yesterday, but didn't really find much that would be suitable as a Wikipedia source - while there were a lot of books, they were split between "London Transport policy for Dummies" and incredibly technical detail - there was a book about the Waterloo and City line which looked promising but just seemed to be a copy/paste of the London Gazette and Hansard on closer inspection. I ended up going in Foyles on Charing Cross Road, where surprisingly (given it's a general purpose bookshop) there was a better selection. I treated myself to a copy of Christian Wolmar's "The Subterranean Railway" which is a great read and a good place to start on history of the Tube if you don't know much at all. I forgot about 23-24 Leinster Gardens. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 09:21, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Oxford Circus tube station help

Hi David,

I just wonder if you can help me find the reference for the recent content addition by some other user for the station building part since I am not able to find any reliable source. Thanks! Hope to get Oxford Circus to get good article status! Vincent60030 (talk) 15:41, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh yes, do you mind if you could give me some guidelines on expanding history sections of stations since only a certain amount of content about the line is allowed. Thanks! Vincent60030 (talk) 15:48, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I did some work on this article many years ago and have always intended to return to it to flesh it out further. Oxford Circus is a tube station with an interesting developmental history - particularly with regard to the engineering aspects. The current article has too many subheadings. Due to the way it was developed, a description of the station is, naturally, entwined with the history, so much of these two sections could be combined. Have a look at this version from August 2006, which consolidates things better and seems to have more information than the current version. The first external link in the August 2006 version was an article written by Mike Horne (he wrote many of the Capital Transport Illustrated Histories of the tube lines), it is broken now, but the article as well as station diagrams can be found here. It has an enormous amount of information which could be used for a major expansion. The other sources already in the article contain a lot of information that could be used.
Regarding how much information to put in about the lines themselves. Have a look at what I have done in the articles on Euston tube station and Morden tube station. Background information not directly about the station, but relevant to the story is contained in a separate section of notes.
Get rid of the pointless cross platform interchange diagram. It does not add anything, that a text description would not provide

--DavidCane (talk) 18:37, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much David! I will work on it! :) Vincent60030 (talk) 09:40, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

(stalking) Hey, great minds think alike - I've just been doing a lot of work on Oxford Street, though being about the street not the station the emphasis is more on Selfridge's, M&S, HMV and wall to wall buses. Anyway, I've been going through Google Book's preview of The London Encyclopaedia, which looks to be an excellent source for basic factual information, and really should get hold of the full. A quick spin on Amazon though suggest the third revised edition is at least £25. Before I shell out some hard earned cash, do you have any opinions of it as a source? I do mean to work on some of these tube articles myself, everything inside the Circle Line is well worth doing IMHO, just need a pointer to good books to cite from. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 14:52, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh and David, good job on improving Euston tube station by A LOT! Btw can you give me some tips on editing long articles like Stratford station and as mentioned by Ritchie, how did you get book sources? Did you buy those books or read it for free? Vincent60030 (talk) 15:18, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Vincent - this is the link I've been using for the Monopoly properties mini-project. The parliamentary Hansard [1] is another good source for basic facts, as everything important ever was mentioned by some MP somewhere at some point, so provided you're prepared to pick through POV and ranting from MPs, you can get vital facts quickly. Here's a factoid showing that in 1908, Marylebone LBC banned flower-sellers at Oxford Circus after 16 years of not having a problem with them. As far as books go, you either have to go to your local library and borrow a copy (or sit in the library with a laptop making notes), look for second hand copies on eBay or abeBooks, or if you're really stuck, go to one of those quaint old fashioned places like Waterstones and part with some hard currency. Remember, the encyclopedia's content is free, creating it isn't. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 15:30, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh thanks, @Ritchie333:. Btw David and Ritchie, do you think that Oxford Circus station is now qualified for GA? Vincent60030 (talk) 16:05, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Hey DavidCane, thanks for helping me out at Oxford Circus tube station article. However, is there an online version for the book source that you have edited? This is because you said it needs a page no. Thanks. Vincent60030 (talk) 14:34, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

I doubt it. Do you not have the book? You really ought to have access to the sources to confirm that they are correct. I don't have Horne's Victoria line book, but I do have Wolmar's. It might be in the Mike Horne station article I gave you a link to above or you could change the reference to Wolmar p. 298 which makes the same point.
I missed your queries above. The books I reference are usually ones I have or ones I occasionally borrow from the library. I also occasionally use online book sources (e.g. googlebooks), but these are usually fairly limited in the amount of the book that can be viewed, so I use these only for minor supplementary issues.
I would avoid editing articles like Stratford station with very complex histories unless you have the sources to hand. Also, check first if someone else is actively managing the article. They may have plans in place for development.
With regards to the Oxford Circus article, I think there needs to be more about the specific developments/reconstructions at the station itself - stuff that is in the Mike Horne article. Since the two original station buildings were opened, there has been an enormous amount of reconstruction in multiple stages below ground. One of the particular things that I think is worth mentioning that is not at the moment is the whole of Oxford Circus was covered by a temporary steel deck to allow the excavation and construction of the circulation areas below the circus (see the the first external link for video of this being constructed over a single weekend).

--DavidCane (talk) 15:28, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I see. I'll work on it. :) Vincent60030 (talk) 16:12, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh yes, does that content help to bring the article to FA? If not, do you have any tips for FA which can be achieved by open stations, not like Aldwych tube station or Westcott tube station? Thanks - Vincent60030 (talk) 02:54, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Baker Street tube station

Hi David! I know about the history of the "Big Four" railways but then I don't know how to shorten it at complicated initial stations such as the one mentioned. Do you mind helping me out expanding it? I'll expand the rest of the section. ;) Cheers and happy collaborating! :D VKZY^LUFan (talk) (Mind the Gap!) 07:52, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Vincent, The Big Four usually means that four mainline companies that were formed by mergers in 1923 following the Railway Act. None of them had any involvement in Baker Street station, although the pre-grouping incarnation of the Great Western Railway did provide some early backing for the Metropolitan Railway.

The current Baker Street station article is a mess. If you want to improve the article, I suggest you have a look at the history sections of the Metropolitan Railway article, as this provides background on the establishment of the company and information on how Baker Street became the hub of the line's network. A bit of that can be put into the Baker Street Railway article, but not too much. A structure similar to Euston tube station or South Kensington tube station may be appropriate. Stages in the development of the station would be:

Opening of the Metropolitan Railway - discuss the original character of the station.
Opening of the St John's Wood Railway - formation of the branch that eventually became the main route for the company into north-west London/Hertfordshire.
Opening of the Baker Street and Waterloo Railway - mention the location of the Leslie Green station (now demolished) around the corner of the main station.
Reconstruction/modification of the station in conjunction with the building of Chiltern Court apartment building above (architect Charles Walter Clark).
Opening of the connection between the Bakerloo line and the Metropolitan line to relieve pressure on the Metropolitan line into Baker Street.
Differentiation of the Metropolitan line's Inner Circle and Hammersmith and City route services from the remainder.
Transfer of the Bakerloo line's Stanmore branch to the Jubilee line to alleviate pressure on the Bakerloo line.

In any discussion of the station, you should also probably find space to mention:

The original mixed gauge arrangement to enable GWR trains to use the line.
The relatively well-preserved nature of the two original cut and cover platforms - restored in the early 1980s.
Junction between the Circle line/Hammersmith and City line tracks and the Metropolitan line tracks causes congestion.
The Metropolitan Railway war memorial.
The London Transport lost property office, which has been in Baker Street for many years.
The Sherlock Holmes branded tiling throughout the station and the Sherlock Holmes statue outside.
The various entrances from Baker Street and Marylebone Road including the one on the south side of the latter.

There are currently a number of broken references in the article where the link to the author in the bibliography is broken (e.g. Wolmar 2005 in the ref, but Wolmar 2004 in the bibliography.)--DavidCane (talk)

Oops, my bad. I should have mentioned what I meant by the Big Four is the current Big Four on the Underground, namely the Circle, District, H & C and Metropolitan. xD Wow! You are really good at historical things! Thanks for your tireless efforts on guiding me. :D Will repair it as said. Once again, cheers! VKZY^LUFan (talk) (Mind the Gap!) 15:08, 13 February 2016 (UTC)