User talk:Wjemather

TGL

Hello,

Could you please help me understand what would make the article better? Exactly what part is it that you think needs work and how would you fix it?

I appreciate any help you have to offer. This is a really cool thing and I think people should get to learn about it - as do all the other contributors.

Thank you,

Sydney15 Sydney15 (talk) 22:17, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

@Sydney15: I haven't had the time to verify, but I suspect at least the first sentence on the History section is copied directly from a press release. Much of the rest of the article is equally dubious and possibly copyright violation (or at best close paraphrasing). Examples of promotion include highlighting supposed future community/charity benefits, listing star name associations (players and investors) indiscriminately, etc. Basically, almost everything except the lead is problematic; it needs a complete rewrite, in our own words, supported by independent reliable sources (in this case, that excludes the PGA Tour and its media partner organisations, such as Golf Channel) not press releases. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 22:58, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Spieth photo

How can I get the watermark off the photo I got the person who uploaded it to change the copyright so it can be used Golffan233 (talk) 04:37, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

@Golffan233: I'd suggest asking them to upload a clean image. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 05:47, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Keep reverting changes to 'Snooker maximum break'

Hi,

On the snooker maximum break page I am continually putting in corrections as the page is factually wrong - and I see you're reverting the corrections. I can prove the bad facts constantly being reverted to on the page. How do we proceed from here? 2A00:23C7:FE91:C01:E835:C089:50C8:F24C (talk) 12:34, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

I see that you have acknowledged your error on the article talk page, so assume this is now moot. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 13:33, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Barney Cutbill

Hi there - just so you know, no problem in principle with redirecting the article until we can find more information - which I always assume for English players will be available somewhere. I don't know if I worded my edit summary correctly but the references were on the article originally until they were hidden in this edit. Not reverted, nonexistent, or removed, but hidden. Which is peculiar. I'm sure in time we will be able to find enough material to write whatever is deemed necessary.

And as always, there are probably a million different things that can be done to List of Cheshire County Cricket Club List A players, in a similar manner to its neighbour List of Cornwall County Cricket Club List A players to make it cleaner and/or more navigable. Bobo. 22:06, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

I've been round this loop with you too often. Significant coverage in independent reliable sources simply does not exist for the vast majority of these players, so no, we will never find enough material to write a proper article about them. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 07:33, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Lincoln Birch page

Hi, I recently edited this page to tidy it up and try and reflect reliable sources, given that the subject is not particularly notable. I noticed that any edits that have ever been made to the page to reflect encyclopedic content, have been disregarded and rearranged by ‘Golfeditor1’ (who is quite obviously Mr Birch himself), to suit his own version of how his page should be laid and what info should/shouldn’t be included. Is there any way around this issue as I believe he has been notified before regarding his conflict of interest. Could the page be deleted possibly to avoid the issue further. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks. Jimmymci234 (talk) 13:40, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Certainly doesn't seem to meet WP:BASIC or WP:GNG as required, and I'm not seeing any significant coverage anywhere so it should probably go to WP:AFD. Sounds like there may also be WP:OWN issues, even if Golfeditor1 is not trying to maintain an autobiography. In the meantime, I've rewritten much of it and added a few tags. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 15:15, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jimmymci234: FYI, I have started a discussion at WP:ANI#User:Golfeditor1. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 19:18, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

ANI discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. pʰeːnuːmuː →‎ pʰiːnyːmyː → ‎ɸinimi → ‎fiɲimi 18:10, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't have time to follow this up yesterday. Hopefully, the admin intervention will prevent further disruption. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 13:52, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.

Salem Country Club scorecard

I recently published the page for Salem Country Club. I am looking to publish the club's scorecard but I don't have a template for it. The link with all the different tees is here. If you have anything please let me know.

Sincerely,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 01:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

I actually just used one of the templates you provided to me last year. The other template were fine even though I didn't have a "Gold tee" one. Sorry for being any nuisance.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 20:04, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Newspapers.com clipping

Hi Wjemather, just wondering if you would be able to clip an article from newspapers.com as I know you have a subscription for there. It's an article from the Honolulu Star-Bulletin dated 7 April 2000, page 28, mentioning Carl Paulson as the previous year's Nike player of the year. I'm trying to add it as a reference for the 1999 Nike Tour awards section, but cannot find anything via Google News archive! If you could do that it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks 19:49, 2 September 2023 (UTC) Jimmymci234 (talk) 19:49, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi Jimmymci234,

It's User:Oogglywoogly. Here is the clip of the link: https://www.newspapers.com/image/273636674/?match=1&clipping_id=131120627. I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 02:23, 3 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Sunshine Tour seasonal calendars

Hi User:Wjemather,

I was looking to create Sunshine Tour calendars for its early years. The tour's archives, as we have discussed before, is here. However, there are some issues.

First off, this is the only source for seasonal calendars that I have. I know it isn't a third-party source but, in my opinion, the calendars are clearly notable. I would like to know your thoughts though. Secondly, if I go ahead and create the calendars I would like to use some of your sources in your archive. I would like your "permission," however, before I go ahead with this.

Thanks,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 20:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi. There are a few other internet accessible sources (albeit only in Google Books snippets!), including [1] & [2] and the OWGR, but they do contain a few errors and omissions (esp. SASBOR which is missing a few seasons and has others labelled incorrectly) so care needs to be taken!! I have most of Mark McCormack's annuals between 1971 and 2001 (per my library) so think I have everything unravelled pretty well in my sandbox, which includes several events not listed on the tour TIC and there shouldn't be much missing. You're free to use anything there as long as you follow WP:CWW with respect to attribution (Note: Nigej also contributed a fair bit). Good luck! _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 22:26, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you User: Wjemather for the response and go-ahead. Before I start creating pages there are a few issues.

On the information centre's page they do not include seasonal results until the 1975/76 season. However, in the drop down they go down to 1965/66 Summer tour. Do you know what's up? Also, thank you for the Google Books links but I wasn't able to access much. After I create the pages could you add the useful information from the books?

Most importantly, I have an issue about the page titles. I would prefer to use the contemporary, historically accurate title of the tour. For example, for the 1977-78 summer tour I would like to use the title "1977-78 South African Tour" rather than "1977-78 Sunshine Tour." (I know we discussed a similar issue recently with the British PGA/ET but I think this is a little different.) I have noticed for tournament wins tables we use the modern-day title of the tour rather than what it actually was at the time. (For example, see Bob Shearer's Australian wins section.) I know we have discussed this before but I still don't understand why we don't use the actual title of the tour rather than some label retroactively determined by a bunch of marketing executives. Any explanation would be helpful.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 19:01, 7 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

I actually noticed that User: Jimmymci234 put in the historically accurate titles for the seasonal calendars (e.g. 1983 PGA of Japan Tour, 1990 PGA Tour of Australia) from back in the day. So I guess we're aligned with that. I still don't understand why we include the modern-day titles under the tournament wins tables but I guess that's a different story.

Anyway, the page for the 1975-76 South African Tour is up. If you have any misgivings please make edits!

Oogglywoogly (talk) 05:40, 10 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

I'll take a look when I get time and add sources (e.g. WoPG) where I can. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:57, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

1984 SAA Masters

According to the TIC archives here and here Mark McNulty won the 1984 SAA Masters. However, reliable third-party sources state that Tony Johnstone clearly won the event. Do you what tournament the TIC is referring to (if any)?

Also, User:Jimmymci234 created the page. He may have some insight.

Thanks,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 18:43, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

@Oogglywoogly: Yes, as we have mentioned to you before, the TIC is not entirely accurate yet. Hence it is wrong in this instance. It should only be used as a guideline, and not as a defining source. Jimmymci234 (talk) 18:45, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

The TIC needs to be used with caution, especially pre-FNB Tour, and cross-checked against other sources; newspapers are probably the best sources to confirm results. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 09:57, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Jimmymci234 and Wjemather for the clarification. I'll make sure to look at the tour's calendars with a grain of salt.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 02:59, 5 October 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

2023 Ryder Cup intro

Hi just noticed the edit re intro on 2023 Ryder Cup. Obviously it is true that the European Team is organised by the European Tour/Ryder Cup Europe and the USA Team is organised by the PGA of America, however I feel it is misleading, especially in the opening sentence to word it in this way. It would be widely reported and make more sense to a wider audience that players are representing their continent/country, not necessarily the tour (especially these days, considering how little they play on it)? Interested in your thoughts. Jimmymci234 (talk) 18:08, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I get that people have different thoughts on who the players represent, but technically it is the ET and the PGAoA, not their respective country/continent. However, country vs continent is a very common view these days (especially since most Euros now live and play in the US) and it's a rivalry the public can buy into so has been promoted by organisers and the media, but others clearly feel differently, e.g. Faldo was on Sky yesterday saying it's tour vs tour. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 19:59, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

FNB Tour

Have you ever managed to come across a source announcing FNB as the title sponsor of the tour in 1992? Been searching the last few days but haven’t found anything. Jimmymci234 (talk) 10:55, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

It's in South Africa and International Sports Factfinder (page 92): "...the first time South African professional golf had enjoyed an overall sponsor of their tour..." I'll see if there's anything in McCormack's annuals. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:17, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Ryder Cup Reunion Foursomes Tournament

New heard of it before but I discovered this event from your User:Wjemather/British PGA circuit list. Quite limited coverage, even at the time, so probably not independently notable. As such I've added a section at 1957 Ryder Cup#Ryder Cup Reunion Foursomes Tournament (since it relates to that Ryder Cup). Perhaps could be extended somewhat. Also briefly mentioned it at the Stuart Goodwin article. Thinking of creating a redirect from Ryder Cup Reunion Foursomes Tournament (or something similar) to the 1957 Ryder Cup section. Anyway, an interesting little snippet from history, completely forgotten until you rediscovered it. Nigej (talk) 08:05, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

A redirect makes sense. Yes, there are quite a few interesting events that have seemingly been forgotten. Hopefully, I'll get time to return to it and complete researching the schedules! _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

List of artists at Abingdon Studios

Thank you for you edits on the Blackpool page. I noticed you removed artists currently at Abingdon for not being notable. Many of them are notable locally. I will add a shorter list of the most notable residents. AntoniaStack (talk) 10:30, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

@AntoniaStack: They would need to have articles (or at least be mentioned to a significant degree somewhere, in which case there should be a redirect) on Wikipedia to be considered notable enough to list. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:41, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

The extra trivia you're removed I agree with but I had left a message on the talk page of the user that added that to ask them for citations, and I wanted to give them the opportunity to reply first before undoing their edit. I do suspect it is someone from the organisation. I'm currently completing a residency with Wikimedia UK and working with the Blackpool community, so it's a work in progress and we do need the space to work through these things. I was planning on speaking directly to the organisation tomorrow.

As for the list, these artists do have articles about them so are notable, but not enough to warrant their own pages yet. I'm unsure about using external links in that instance. AntoniaStack (talk) 15:41, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

@AntoniaStack: Similar pruning is needed with some of the other Arts subsections; the section also suffers from a bad case of recentism. As a rule of thumb, if people don't have a Wikipedia article, we don't include them in such lists; the word "current" is also a red flag for content that may not be appropriate for an encyclopedia. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 15:49, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Take your point about the word current. The Culture section is a big work in progress and there's lots to do. The music section is / was disproportionately long and I'll be taking a look at it soon. There are lots more sections to write, it's evolving and here's a big community effort going into that page at the moment. I'll bear in mind your feedback about the length of section and look at migrating the information over to individual pages on organisations when the time comes. But if you could please leave it in tact for now that would be appreciated. The section will also be having an introduction with more of an overview of the cultural landscape too. AntoniaStack (talk) 16:08, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

@AntoniaStack: Sections that get excessively large and detailed in relation to the rest of the article are often candidates for WP:SPLITing, e.g. Culture of Blackpool (see Category:Culture by city in England for similar articles that have been created already), with a brief summary remaining in the main article. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 18:22, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking re organisations although I've just looked and Culture of xxx city is quite common so there's precedent for that. thank you. I'll have a think about it. AntoniaStack (talk) 18:25, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

INDIA AT THE CRICKET WORLD CUP

Hi You have put long articles and multiple issues on the India at the Cricket World Cup. For length, what can be done?? And why isnt it wikipedian language? Pharaoh496 (talk) 04:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Also, you said we dont need each match's description. I understand and respect your point, but its an Indian page, and Indians would like each match's summary due to the large number of intricate cricket fans. Its more detailed and elaborate, well sourced. Just a tournament description would be quite short Pharaoh496 (talk) 04:07, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

@Pharaoh496: At the most basic level (and only focusing on the final two of paragraphs of this year's tournament), words and phrases like "tough fight", "sluggish", "in-form", "crumbled", "disciplined", "struggled", "collapsing", "crashed", "mauled", "massive", "blitzkrieg", etc. are emotive opinions that fail WP:NPOV policy and are largely unsupported by the sources; the general tone of the writing is also not neutral ({{Fan POV}} may also have been appropriate). Summaries of each tournament should be 2-3 brief paragraphs at most; one for the build-up/group stage, one for the knockout stage - if reader want in-depth details (squads, scores, bowling figures, etc.), they can go to the tournament articles or cricinfo; it doesn't need duplicating. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:21, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

1977+78 European Tour Order of Merit

Do you have any/know where to find sources which details the points for the Order of Merit in these years? I’ve been able to source the money earnings but can’t find the points anywhere. Jimmymci234 (talk) 14:25, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

As far as I recall, the OoM switched to a money list (and was renamed as such a couple of years later) so there were no points. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

@Wjemather: Can’t be the case though. The money list in these years is not ordered in terms of money won. Given this source too [3] Below the list, translated it basically says that the OoM was decided on points but money has been listed here. Jimmymci234 (talk) 14:48, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Seems our articles used to say that it was points based in these seasons, so have restored that text. However, I suspect the 1978 list may have simply been a money list. Not immediately finding any sources though. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 16:12, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes 1978 seems to be in that order so most likely correct. Jimmymci234 (talk) 16:23, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Do you think the points for 1977 could be what is displayed at https://www.europeantour.com/dpworld-tour/rankings/overview/rankings/? With the exclusion of Green and Watson who I assume were non-members. Jimmymci234 (talk) 17:32, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think so, especially given it doesn't seem to reflect what sources have in other years. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 18:06, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

TPS tour seasonal calendars

I am almost done with the Southern Africa Tour calendars. My next potential adventure is to create calendars for the TPS tour, the precursor to the PGA Tour's developmental tour. I would like to use information from your sandbox. Like the SA calendars, however, I would like your "permission" before I go ahead and create the calendars. (Fwiw, I attributed your help in the SA calendars page history.)

Also, there is no general page for the TPS yet. I have found some newspaper articles with broad information like here and here however I was wondering if you had access to anything else. I have checked the PGA Tour media guides during the era but they aren't that helpful. (And, of course, they aren't third-party anyway.) Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 00:53, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

The TPS tour probably isn't significant enough for it's own article(s); as such it, and the seasons, are better covered in the relevant PGA Tour article(s). _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 08:57, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I have to say I disagree with you re: TPS' potential notability. When I type in the phrase "tournament players series" or any of the names of tournaments it hosted I get an extraordinary amount of hits in the newspaper search engines. It seems like it clearly generated enough media coverage to warrant an independent page. In addition, we have a number of pages for defunct developmental tours (e.g. Omega China Tour, Tour de las Américas, etc.) and I think TPS is at least as notable as these. Please let me know your thoughts.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 06:25, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

When it comes to sports, hits usually mean scores and results rather than significant secondary coverage (as required by WP:GNG). Also, the TLA wasn't a development tour; and technically, neither was the China Tour. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 12:37, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Even if they weren't technically development tours I feel like the weren't as notable as TPS, the leading developmental tour for the world's premier golf circuit. In addition, we have independent pages for numerous other tours (e.g. Alps Tour, Gateway Tour, Golden Bear Tour - I could go on and on...) that clearly aren't as notable as TPS.

However, what you say about a lack of secondary sources is probably true. I can find more than scores/results but these articles usually serve as preparation for a certain TPS tournament in the area and probably don't qualify as "secondary."

Oogglywoogly (talk) 05:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Hey, I think I'm going to go ahead and make a page for TPS. I feel like I have found some worthwhile secondary sources on newspapers.com. In addition, I feel like we have set a precedent where clearly weaker tours are good enough for a page. Also, to prevent any conflict I will not use anything from your sandbox.

Sincerely,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 04:36, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

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1969 Sunshine circuit calendar

I have a link that notes the 1969 schedule for the British golfer Doug McClelland. It lists eight events he intended to play on the Sunshine circuit that summer with dates. While probably not a comprehensive calendar for the circuit it is something. Thought it may be of some use.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 06:13, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Category:Patron's Trophy has been nominated for discussion

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A barnstar for you!

		The Copyright Cleanup Barnstar
		Thank you for your diligence in cleaning up the mess from SabinaKawsar. Whpq (talk) 18:32, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:26, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

2006 NEPGT calendar

I noticed you have done a lot of recent work on the American minitours. Right now I'm writing a page on local minitour player Geoffrey Sisk. I came across this Boston Globe article which has something of a schedule for the New England Pro Golf Tour in 2006. Thought it may be of some help.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 23:59, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. May take me a while to get that far! _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 21:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Ok, please let me know when (or if) you start working on the NEPGT. It would be useful for me. In addition, here is another article about the tour. Looks like it was inaugurated in 2001.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 18:48, 23 February 2024 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Another link.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 19:51, 23 February 2024 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Sorry to bombard you with all these pages but in my research for Sisk I also found a link for something called the North American Pro Golf Tour (NAPGT). I did not see this tour referenced in your minitour section; it may be of some use.

Regards, Oogglywoogly (talk) 23:59, 29 February 2024 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

1976 Natal Open

You noted in the your sandbox that the 1976 event was "cancelled." Your source is something called "WoPG 1997." Sorry but I don't know what this is. If you have any more information that would be helpful; I may put this information on the 1975–76 Southern Africa Tour page. And I almost certainly would add this info on the Natal Open page as the event ceased to exist after that year's cancellation.

Regards,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 00:06, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

WoPG is Mark McCormack's World of Professional Golf annual. I have a few in my "library" but they're currently buried in the spare room. I'll take a look when I get chance. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:44, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok if you are capable of retrieving the relevant information that would be great. I suspect that that year's cancellation is related to the general cessation of the event so it could be quite valuable. If it is too much trouble, however, please don't bother.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 06:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

As suspected, it was cancelled after the withdrawal of the title sponsor (Vavasseur International had been taken over), and the NGU couldn't find a replacement.

References

1999 Asia Golf Circuit

Searched all over to try and find sources and info on what events took place in that year. Absolutely nothing outside of the Kirin Open which we already know of. It leads me to think did any events even take place outside of that one event?? Nothing on the newspaper archives, also tried using Korean news sources using translation but next to nothing. I don’t have McCormack's WoPG 2000 but I assume the only event he lists is the Kirin Open? Jimmymci234 (talk) 12:42, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I have WoPG 2000, but McCormack had stopped covering the old Asia Golf Circuit by then. The best I found was a source that said there were 6 tournaments (but that could easily be an error is it was a 1998–99 season). Anyway, as with previous seasons, it's probably safe to say the Kirin Open was the only tournament that mattered. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 12:52, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Egyptian Open

Hi! I’m just wondering why you removed my short description on the Egyptian Open page. I just want to make sure I’m not doing something wrong. Thanks! Atremari (talk) 11:47, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Atremari: Sorry, I didn't realise I had. Must be a bug in how the editor switches from source to visual to source editing. I've restored it now. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:52, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Rolex sponsorships has been nominated for deletion

Category:Rolex sponsorships has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. User:Namiba 14:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

the BC Open

Hi,

I am looking for some info on the BC Open and I see you have updated the page a lot. I want to know what the tournament record for a low round was. Is the the 62 Jay Delsing shot in 1985? Can you point me in the direction as to where you found all of your info and maybe I can dig deeper.

Thank you,

Will Wsaulsbery (talk) 19:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

@Wsaulsbery: Sorry, I don't have that information, but according the article, Hal Sutton shot 61 in the final round in 1995. Old tour media guides are a good starting point for information. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 06:22, 18 April 2024 (UTC)