User talk:5.170.47.140

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

5.170.47.140 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I'm following the instructions of the "Guide to appealing blocks" to request to be unblocked. My IP range 5.170.47.0/24, a wide Italian IP range, was blocked for a year by an admin, Graham87. The reason given is "Disruptive editing". Actually, my edits were fully construvtive, maybe just not easy to understand: I just corrected the phonetic transcription in IPA of a few Italian names or words, such as Nic(c)olò Paganini. In this case, for example, in the phonetic transcription it was written [ppaga'ni:ni], with pointless double [p] at the beginning of the surname. Let me explain better, in order to show off this is all a misunderstanding... In Italian language there's a distinction between single and double consonants: single are pronounced normally, as in English, while double are pronounced "fortis". For convention, in en.wikipedia a consonant pronounced "fortis" is transcribed as a double consonant. But in the case of Paganini it's a single consonant pronounced normally, not a double consonant pronounced "fortis". You can check the IPA transcription of Paganino Paganini, it's the same case: it's [paga'ni:ni]. Italian language does possess double consonants, but never at the beginning of words (unlike Korean: for example, "쌀" is translitterated "ssal" because the initial S is pronounced "fortis"). I'm sorry for writing so much about such a complex linguistic issue, but it was all to explain as well as possible the reason for my edit, that it wasn't disruptive at all and why this yearly block is wrong, so I hope that the block can be removed. I'm not a damage for the project and I just want to give my small contribution. I also want to specify that I don't resent the admin who did it, because I do understand that my edits may have been easily misunderstood as vandalisms by almost everyone, except users who knew well Italian phonetics. Well, let's hope this is enough to clarify my point and to be unblocked, in case there's anything else you want to ask me please feel free to write here. 5.170.47.140 (talk) 10:30, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Accept reason:

See below. Graham87 15:16, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Graham87 - Would you mind taking a look at this request, please? SQL^{Query me!} 00:52, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

@SQL: This sort of thing has been going on for a while now. Graham87 02:07, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

(I'm the user who requested the unblock, I had to register in order to edit here...) Okay, now I understand the nature of the misunderstanding. The user it was talked about in that page isn't me. I repeat it: it-is-not-me. I hadn't even started editing en.wikipedia 3 years ago, that's another person. Compare his contributions with mine: he used to remove content and sources, to insult users, to literaly "disrupt" Italian IPA phonetic transcriptions by ignoring the conventions used in Help:IPA for Italian page... Such edits were indisputably "vandalisms", that user was indisputably a "vandal". All of his edits were like that. Instead, what about me and my edits? Have I done anything similar? I've just corrected an error. I repeat it: "corrected". Nobody would think that changing "Paganini"'s IPA from [ppaga'ni:ni] to [paga'ni:ni] was a vandalism, except somebody assuming bad faith. How is such an edit involved with the vandal's? Tell me, please, I'm serious, I'd like to know how I could be mistaken with him. And another question: how could correcting such a manifest transcription error be considered a vandalism? Now, you admins have to consider facts, reflect on them and take a decision: if you reach the conclusion that my edit is actually a vandalism and I'm that 3-years-ago vandal, then you'll be convinced that this yearly block of a /24 range is right, but if you reach the conclusion that I'm not that vandal, that my edit is a mere misprint correction, that I've been acting in good faith, then you'll be convinced that this was all a mistake and this block is wrong. I'm looking forward your conclusions. Tenunz (talk) 07:44, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

@Tenunz: I don't really know what to think at this point ... but can I ask how you got so good at handling diffs, like a regular editor? Have you edited this site before under other usernames/IP's?

As for the Niccolò Paganini issue at hand, I used WikiBlame to find out when the doubled P was added ... it turns out to have been in this edit by IvanScrooge98, who cited syntactic gemination as his reasoning. This particular feature of Italian does not seem to exist in Milan, where you're geolocated to.

Also, your ping didn't work because you added the template after signing the message; let me redo it for you: @SQL and Huon:. Graham87 08:51, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Okay, I'm answering in order. I've copied the style used in that page, I've seen that I could not only put an URL between parentheses but also add some text after a space, as it was done in the first section, but I hadn't registered another account before nor edited with another IP. About the "syntactic gemination", I admit I didn't know anthing about it, it's probable that user added a P because he knew what he was doing, in this case my edit wouldn't had been a correction but an error itself, if this is the case I won't insist in removing the second P (anyway, I can't get why in the case of Paganino Paganini there's just a single P, but as I've said I don't know anything about this particular feature). Last but not least, thank you for repinging the admins I was wrong to ping. Now, since you're trying assuming good faith towards me, and since I've said that I'm not going to remove that P any more because I've understood my beleif was wrong, is it possible to unblock my IP range? If, for absurd, I tried removing the P again, you'd see it and you'd revert and block me again, but this isn't my intent, I'm not a vandal and I don't want to disrupt the encyclopedy. Tenunz (talk) 09:19, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Since I was pinged here: I don't have the knowledge of IPA to tell whether 5.170.47.140/Tenunz is right or wrong on the merits. They were, for all intents and purposes, changing one piece of unsourced information into another piece of unsourced information. That said, I don't think they are a new editor. They seem to be intimately familiar not just with how Wikipedia (and related projects) work but also with specific LTA cases. I find the denial of previous editing experience unpersuasive. Huon (talk) 11:14, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Okay, let's talk about the block itself. Why should IP range 5.170.47.0/24 be kept blocked? Because you're convinced that I'm that old vandal? I'm not, and I don't think you're convinced I am. Because you're convinced that I'm going to edit again and again that IPA? I'm not, and I don't think you're convinced I am. Now, the block was made for a misunderstanding by Graham87: he tought I was that old vandal and he thought that I was disrupting an IPA. But the misunderstanding was clarified, I'm not that vandal and since it seems that my good faith edit was uncorrect I'm not repeating it again. What am I accused to? To be smarter in informatics than in Italian phonetic phenomena? That's what you seem to be saying... What's this range currently blocked for? What's the aim of keeping it blocked under the current circumstances? Do you think I'll restart removing the P after the unblock? If that's the case, then you're right not to unblock it... But do you really think I'll behave this way after trying so hard to get unblocked? And if you were dealing for real with an old vandal expert in disrupting the encyclopedy, do you think that blocking an IP range would prevent him from doing whatever he wanted? If you unblock the range, instead, you'll be able to keep an eye on all contributions made from it and see immediately when a vandalism is done (but you won't see it because I won't do vandalisms). The thing which annoys me most is feeling to be pointed as a vandal, not to be trusted even if I'm unguilty. The sensation of being accused of doing something you haven't done is awful. I don't know what to do to convince you of my innocence, of not being that old vandal and of not possessing bad intentions. Tell me, try me... Tenunz (talk) 11:54, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

@Tenunz and Huon: I've unblocked the range. Let's see what happens. (I didn't check the Wikiversity link before unblocking, but I had a similar discussion at Wikivoyage]] with this user. The Wikiversity discussion concerns me a bit more, but as I say, ... we'll see what happens.

As for Paganino Paganini, there's no syntactic gemination there because the first name there ends in an unaccented vowel (as opposed to "Niccolò".

Whatever you do, from now on please edit under an account name, not an IP, to reduce the likelihood of something like this happening again. It might also be a good idea to create a user page to introduce yourself. Graham87 15:16, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Graham87, I'm happy this misunderstanding was solved! You'll see that you've done the right thing, I'm not disrupting anything and I'm not removing again the P in Paganini's IPA. I've also learnt something, that is this "syntactic gemination" thing, even if I still see no difference in pronunciation between the 2 Paganinis (but it must be because around Milan where I live this phonetic phenomenon doesn't exist). I'm going to edit, this time correctly for sure (keep an eye on me if you like), a few other Italian IPAs with mispells, I'll do with this account as you asked, but I don't think I'll write an introduction about myself, since I'm not as devoted to en.wikipedia as most of the other registered users here and I'll edit only when I find a mistake to be corrected. Okay, see us and thanks again! Tenunz (talk) 17:55, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

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