Many thanks for the Isaac info. So Dinah was a Hyman? Is that a coincidence or would that be the same family (Malka Hyman) that Harry later married into - possibly a cousin? I’ve also retrieved this from the internet: "Angela Gardner née Canter, daughter of Stella Canter née Epstein, aunt of Brian Epstein and daughter of the Isaac Epstein". Could this possibly be the daughter, Leah? More questions, always more questions!--Patthedog (talk) 20:59, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Harry Epstein married Minnie/Queenie Hyman in 1933 in Ecclesall Bierlow which spans the boundaries of the counties of Derbyshire and West Riding of Yorkshire. I would think that the families must've known each other somehow - it's a fair way to Liverpool.
Minnie was born in Sheffield on the 2nd of December 1914 to parents Louis Hyman and Annie Rachel Kamise/Kimise who had married in Sheffield in 1903.
- So, it’s possible that there may have been some kind of “introduction” in the first place between Isaac and Dinah, and again, between Harry and Malka, within the same two families? Could that mean that Harry was possibly then related to Malka? (perfectly legal - I believe cousins can marry). BTW, do you have any early addresses relating to Isaac & Dinah apart from Walton Road? Cheers & thanks & well done - I don’t know how you make sense of it all!--Patthedog (talk) 10:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks. I’ll just assume you have no other addresses for Isaac. --Patthedog (talk) 11:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- Hi Brakn, I now have a copy of Issac & Dinah’s marriage certificate. It confirms that he was a Draper, that she was an assistant Draper. They both resided at 79, Stanley Street, Cheetham (which, I think is an area in Manchester? See http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=384362&Y=399731&A=Y&Z=1) at the time (24th Jan 1900). Any use? --Patthedog (talk) 12:33, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Just thinking on from this, do you think the whole thing was pre-planned, that Isaac could have travelled directly to the Hyman’s from Russia and then to Liverpool? --Patthedog (talk) 12:44, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Doesn’t state his, but Dinah’s Father was Joseph. The witnesses were Leo Shaffer and Ephraim Brown (I think - the print is poor). --Patthedog (talk) 14:35, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, so you are there! Re: Joseph C 1871 - as I couln't see him on that Census, I advanced it to 1880 as he does appear on the next Census. Have you evidence then that suggusts otherwise? Cheers --Patthedog (talk) 16:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- The family are not in the UK in time for the 1871 census. The 1881 shows that son Jacob was born in "Poland" in 1871 and that Rebecca was born in Manchester in 1872 so they must've arrived late 71/early 72. It's a while since I looked at this. Brakn (talk) 17:17, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Right. So, Rebecca / Manchester / 1872 settles that. Actually, I’m trying to research Jacob right now, and see that he has widower status by 1911. Have you seen that? --Patthedog (talk) 17:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not sure myself. Are you on about Jacob Hyman, Joseph and Esther's eldest son? If so could it be possible that he used another name? Did he also end up in Liverpool? Widower status? I did find a Jacob Hyman who was married to a Dova or something like that in Liverpool, does that sound right? I knopw that this Jacob is with the family in Manchester in 1891 but not with them in 1901. (I've probably got the censuses already. Brakn (talk) 20:12, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Yes - Joseph and Esther's eldest son. I get two hits on the 1911, one is 38 of Russian descent (widower) living in London. The other one is 40 married and born in London (could be a mistake?). I've also got a Jacob living in London in 1901 (not the same address) 30 married from Russia. --Patthedog (talk) 21:11, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- I think we're struggling. There are a lot of similar names - too many. I did find an Isaac that I thought would fit and he didn't appear on the previous census as Isaac but it is guessing! The trouble with Jacob is that he would probably have married in his brides town which could be anywhere in the UK. Also there are a few Jacob Hymans; you can't always be sure that the age on the census is right or the place of birth. Him being a draper/tailor will help nail him down hopefully. Will have to leave to next week. Best wishes. Brakn (talk) 23:21, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
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Sionk (talk) 15:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)