User talk:Hesperian/Archive 17

The following text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.

What the... (contd)

Re crossing the floor - I think the best part about working with the group of people we do here is the level of maturity across many of the established editors that makes a distinction between ideas and personalities. We could be rabidly (yet respectfully) disagreeing on an XfD while happily building something together somewhere else. On an unrelated note could you check the latest change to Hamersley's natural history section, just making sure the after means the same as the before. Orderinchaos78 03:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While youre at it the new template from User:Assize - Satu Suro 04:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC) - I'd be interested in your comments on it on or off...Satu Suro 13:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also just noticed euc platypus on your contribs list just then - i am sure i have been told it is the most vulnerable of all eucs re pollution (ie opposite of hakea petiolaris that grow happily in the middle of highways and thrive) and I had one at darlington planted as a miners canary so to speak - would you have any clues as to where info like that might be found? i have a very large colln of books on eucs but they are still in boxes - just curious if you had a handle on which online database is more likely to have anecdotal material at all perhaps.... Satu Suro 13:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Have put up the csnf up - still interested in any comments on it Satu Suro 04:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC) Thanks for that Satu Suro 04:47, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

SWFDF is up now - as well - wa chip and pulp in my swill page - and fred has another in his beanbox - oops sandbox as well - any ticks, kangaroo ticks or sticks against carefless words would be appreciated..... when you have the time that is.... Satu Suro 11:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC) humility and self effacement work very well in java - you're ok! Satu Suro 11:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC) re low level importance status of all of your articles :) Satu Suro 11:49, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citing APNI

Hi Hesperian

I think in a case where the online database is used as a reference, rather than the publication itself, we should not use the template [Chapman, Arthur D. (1991). Australian Plant Name Index (Australian Flora and Fauna Series 12—15). Canberra: Australian Government Publishing Service. ] because the database, although obviously heavily based on the published work, has been updated substantially since 1991 and is a derivative work rather than the same work.

On the web site of the Australian National Botanic Gardens Centre for Plant Biodiversity Research "Citing the ANBG or CPBR web sites or databases" [1] they suggest the following citation style:

"Australian Plant Name Index, IBIS database, Centre for Plant Biodiversity Research, Australian Government, Canberra, viewed 20 June 2004, <http://www.cpbr.gov.au/cgi-bin/apni>" Melburnian 00:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for for that - I'll be using it a lot!--Melburnian 04:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lead in B. epica

I think that is an improvement. I'm assuming you do too, or you would not made the change.

If have satisfied yourself on the following subject, ignore this ramble.

Regarding my comment on measurement: MOS, units of measurement neither confirms nor denies the approach you have taken, at least by my interpretaion of it. I think it (not you) coud be clearer, however;

"Converted values should use a level of precision similar to that of the source value." is complicated, I assume, by differing units in your earlier and later sources.
The mix of milli and centi in the descrip. of the leaf is a bit inconsistent, IMHO. No prob with centimetre per the reasons you outlined, but I don't think centi should be used for decreasing (slightly) the 'level of precison'.
6 mm (O.6 cm) is half a centimetre, roughly speaking.
"The hippopotamus stands 1.5 metres (5 ft) at the shoulders and weighs" seems to imply that 'point five' is an approx, not a level of precision. 1.5 implies more than 1, less than 2 and not an exact figure. That is my recollection of significant digits, anyway.

However, you know I can be wildly wrong about things like this. Don't let me waste your time. All the best - Fred 04:25, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

judge refs

This smells like ripe sewage to me what do you think?

1 References

The basic entry for this article was created by parsing and aggregating portions of other articles including: Australian court hierarchy, Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, Wikimedia Foundation Inc. Retrieved on date "basic entry" created (see history). ("highest ranking court") States and territories of Australia, Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, Wikimedia Foundation Inc. Retrieved on date "basic entry" created (see history). (Western Australia is a state in Australia) Supreme Court of Western Australia, Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, Wikimedia Foundation Inc. Retrieved on date "basic entry" created (see history). (name, occupation, court and division)

For most articles on current supreme court judges Satu Suro 06:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am getting tired of the perth, w.a. vandals - could you please take a look ? Satu Suro 12:16, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Banksia Photos

we have a new source located in MT Barker taking pictures for the articles Gnan garra 12:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Soldier settlement (Australia)

Thanks for your input into the above article. Can I get you to look at reference 3 that you have put up but which is redlinked out at the moment. I would normally try to fix it but I can't quite work out what to do? Also did you know that I have this article to be a WP:ACOTF article and would welcome your support if you think that it is an appropriate collaboration project? --VS ^talk 08:57, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not a problem - looks like Mattinbgn got to it first. Cheers!--VS ^talk 10:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aquinas Article

I wanted you to weigh into the debate on Talk:Aquinas College, Perth about the establishment of the college. Thanks Smbarnzy 07:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstorming

If you've got 5 or 10 minutes can you look at the reference thats linked as the article appears to be a direct copy but I cant find any copyright notices on the site that would indicate their article cant be used. Would appreciate your thoughts. Gnan garra 14:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

search

engine issue Talk:Ansearch could you please cast your discriminating eye on the current talk? Satu Suro 04:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GGS, chapel etc - I quit the playground forsooth - and have told them so - and will leave it to them. Satu Suro 10:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

gsmile to complete the story offline Satu Suro 10:47, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

just remembered 'lake project' tags when i was doing the tas lakes for wp tas stuff - do you have any objections to this for wa ones? Satu Suro 11:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

arrgh i wasnt meaning it in that sense - should have phrased it better! oh well if you feel you are bing followed - you are! :) Satu Suro 11:54, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

slowed down by external forces of varying species... Satu Suro 12:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You

Thanks Hesp, and Sat - your both educating me and making me more wiki-lierate, thanks alot for the sandbox BarnZy

Who/Why Put Back "Law vs. Secession?"

Per the below under secession on Wiki.

(cur) (last) 00:54, January 31, 2007 Hesperian (Talk | contribs) m (Reverted edits by 71.227.237.246 (talk) to last version by Joncnunn)

You did not provide evidence Congress made secession illegal and I know of know such evidence. I am going to take it out again soon. If you want to have it there PLEASE provide evidence and a link since I'd really like to know! There maybe some statutes that can BROADLY be intepreted thusly, but at least tell us what they are and that it is a broad interpretation. Thanks. Carol in dc http://secession.net/ Carol Moore 19:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)carolmooredc

OOPSS!! It wasn't you! I don't know how I got confused. WIll have to keep looking. But guess it's just easier to note in SECESSION that someone put it back in without a source and I intend to take it out UNLESS they can prove point I made above! Carol Moore 19:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)carolmooredc

Another Banksia FA

Well done again! --Steve _(Slf67)^talk 00:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just saw the Main Page FA, but I guess it's well done for both! --Steve _(Slf67)^talk 00:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats! (Pssst: ref. 35 is broken) —Moondyne 00:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

35 is working now. —Moondyne 01:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No need to explain. I looked in the history but couldn't see it had been changed so I incorrectly assumed it was an external issue. My bad. Re the other, I am cognisant of the requests you've been getting and the crap you've been dragged into lately and am deliberately trying to keep my demands on you to a minimum, so don't feel bad. Onward and upward! —Moondyne 02:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not answering every message is not ignoring people. I often reply verbally to the screen on my PC. The message is transferred telepathically across the ether straight into your brain. Sometimes I can even do it without saying the message out loud. I just frame a thought and transmit. Its amazing. —Moondyne 02:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I don't even know why I typed up this message because ... [time to stop Ian] —Moondyne 02:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional telepaths is what you were thinking, i think.... Satu Suro 02:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well done! Satu Suro 01:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto, now question is.........what next, the genus or do you want to get another species up there? cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 01:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stirling Ranges

This weekend I'll be enjoying the Stirling Ranges for a couple of quiet days, Will have the camera with extra batteries and memory cards I should be able to get 500-700 photos any requests. Gnan garra 04:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Award and awarding

It was always going to get there, but I was confused by dis!?. Fred 11:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC) Oh! I was looking for the end of the discussion on epica. I got confused by the similar dates when I was stumbling about. You explained what was not apparent to me on those pages. Thanks. And again, congrat'ns. - Fr ed 12:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mukinbudin/Nungarin and Dryland salinity

Hi, I was wondering if you know any more about this subject than I do? I'm trying to write about these two towns and shires and I think especially with Nungarin it is a critical subject, but a lot of the literature is beyond my present level of comprehension :| I found Soil salination and Salinity in Australia but they dont really speak to the local circumstances in the area [2] (p4-5) or all the management stuff going on in Mukinbudin like [3]. Also I noticed you're doing a lot of stuff with agricultural regions, do you know what one(s) Mukinbudin and Nungarin (and Trayning and Bencubbin too if possible) would be in? Sorry I know I'm asking a lot but I'm not looking for an answer right away if you are busy :) DanielT5 13:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all that!! That does help quite a lot. Now I just have to figure out how to get that into the articles... DanielT5 04:52, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for the revert on my userpage. Where'd that guy come from anyway? –King Bee ^{(T • C)} 16:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Banksia epica

Bonjour de France! The translation to french is Done ;-) J'espère avoir été aussi fidèle que possible à l'original. Toutes mes félicitations aux rédacteurs de l'article. Spedona 22:20, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now the taxonomic fun starts......................

Here we go..............[[4]]. I've asked Austin Mast for a digital copy. heehee cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 08:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So does that make 93 more banksia species or is a developing stouch between botanists Gnan garra 10:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for the email yesterday Gnan garra 10:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, f*ck a d*ck.

Lucky I created stubs on every single Dryandra taxa in readiness of this moment. And lucky I've got a copy of Cavanagh and Pieroni on my bookshelf! All of a sudden WP:BANKSIA has a lot of work to do.

I've just emailed you both a digital copy.

As of right now, there are 93 more Banksia species and no Dryandra genus. However, I suppose it is possible that someone (e.g. Alex George) will overturn it. Any chance of that, Cas?

I wonder what happens to Banksiinae. Does it get killed off, or kept as a monogeneric subtribe?

Questions, questions, so many questions. I suppose I should read the paper....

Hesperian 10:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've made a list of things to do at Wikipedia:WikiProject Banksia/Project maintenance. Hesperian 13:05, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just thinking (I know its dangerous after 22:00 hrs) maybe the taxonomy section embedded in the banksia articles could be done via a template so that alterations could be done as a group instead of individually Gnan garra 13:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

<--- Moves done all redirects in place, Dabs, double redirects, taxa, florabase links, tags, etc still need to be done Gnan garra 14:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dryandra prionotes I noticed that an email for Austin Mast was listed on the CSIRO page, since I've already sent the creator an email I thought an email to Mast wouldn't hurt and have asked what its new name is. Gnan garra 13:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but I had already done so. He has responded that they overlooked it. I guess it will remain a current name for now, though invalid. Hesperian 01:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for the concern about the storm. My flat escaped remarkably well, considering how badly the place is built - didn't even leak. The sight on Wednesday morning was surreal, but things are starting to get to normal, and classes are supposed to be resuming on Monday. I guess I'm just waiting to see how badly damaged the buildings on campus are now - perhaps the worst thing is that the roof of the main library is supposed to have collapsed onto the top floor, which contains most of its collection. Rebecca 01:35, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We lost our (approx) 20 metre long shed roof during the storms of Feburary 20, along with two pc's when lightning hit the house. I'm sure there's other damage that I suspect has yet to be discovered. Sure has been some freaky storms about of late. I'm working from one of my old laptops for now so my wiki-time is greatly reduced. Chainsawing trees seems to be a new hobby of mine :) -- Longhair\^talk 01:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah good therapy for vandal fighters - chainsaw ballet! Satu Suro 10:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Allo allo allo then sir, would you mind..breathing into.

Ok - it seemed like a good idea at the time... to be sure, oh well the round to you sir, would you like that in the keg... Satu Suro 12:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

despairing cry for help on gmail Satu Suro 13:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

thank you for speedy resolution of the issue, it was a more unsual one to go to sleep to!Satu Suro 02:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Banksia

So what's the low down for us mortals. Do all refs to D. species now need to be changed to the equiv B. species or are they OK as they are? (and don't go emailing me some war and peace article written in latin) —Moondyne 12:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'm displaying my ignorance here. I understood that recent DNA tools have increased the occurrence of these sort of structural taxonomical changes, which is what brought this one to a head. Is that right? And if so, on what grounds could George or anyone else overturn the new rules? —Moondyne 13:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is a very tricky area - the one good thing is that all banksia authorities are on good terms with each other (unlike a few years ago with Eucalyptus vs Corymbia when there was reported to have been some acrimony. cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 01:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can I confirm how "Brownii" is pronounced - is it "brown-eye", "brown-ee" or "brownie-eye"? Thinking of taking it on for my first spoken word Wikipedia article. Orderinchaos78 16:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Check yer email

Some detective work is needed............. ;) cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 01:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC) A short one - curly subject Satu Suro 10:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC) Sent Satu Suro 10:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC) Ive sent you an email too DanielT5 13:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC) I'd hate to see your inbox DanielT5 15:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks :) And thanks again for your work on the Natural history section - I owe you one when next we meet up :) Orderinchaos78 13:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

February 2007

This February I celebrated a whole year of being a Wikipedian. I've got a couple of articles to GA some time back. I'll continue to assess on WP:BIO, but I'll stop on WP:WA. Aurora north 06:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Hesperian - can you suggest some things that I should/can do suited to me? Thanks Aurora north 08:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot what they were because I picked the article up when it was at Start-B class range and left it at GA. I worked with lots of people on the article - it could have been Western Australia or something... it was something to do with WA. I've found a topic to work on but haven't submitted it yet... Percy Henn. Aurora north 10:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do believe that I would enjoy a couple of those - however I'm concentrating on Percy Henn right now and plan to finish it at Start class soon. Aurora north(WikiDesk) 10:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not amongst them, are you sure that's all of them? Aurora north(WikiDesk) 11:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

IBRA Riverina

Thanks for your comments and question. My response is here. --VS ^talk 12:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Attribution#Unpublished synthesis of published material

No opinion. DavidYork71 13:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC) Other than to confirm my understanding that if the verifiable conditions A and B characterise a circumstance or subject, you may report them both in providing a dissertation on that subject or circumstance - in the same para, or even same sentence (as the purpose of expression of best served). But you may not fairly say A caused B or A is always characteristic of B unless that's also verifiable. The exception is something incontestible (eg. when the sun came out the snow started to melt ---> the sun caused the snow to melt, snow cover is incompatible with solar radiation exposure) But why ask? DavidYork71 13:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

IBRA Mallee

Thanks for your response Hesperian. The maps are great and I will use them. Interestingly I note that your map of The Mallee region has brought forth a disambiguation I was not previously aware of. In my response to your question I was referring to the The Mallee - as in Sunraysia/Malee. I have taken the opportunity to refer the disambiguation at Mallee. --VS ^talk 21:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pfff - I am going to sue that optometrist for saying I don't need glasses! Thanks for removing the duplicate. --VS ^talk 04:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now you got me worried........

I was wondering where you got the idea I had a PhD, I am now anxious I've misrepresented myself somewhere....cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 05:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

hahaha, no probs. My biggest problem now is that I enjoy Maple Story too much...cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 05:24, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question on uploading pictures

I have a picture here of Percy Umfreville Henn (copyright expired) and it's on paper. I want to edit it a bit (e.g. slice off the caption and Library barcode) and then upload it to the Commons (if that's the right place). Can you tell me how I can do all this? I'm unsure how to edit it and scan it to the JPEG format. Thanks, Aurora north (WikiDesk) 09:52, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stirling Ranges

Thanks, Images in the next fewww days. At least 4 species of banksia seen, If you've spare mill laying around the Stirling Ranges retreat is for sale :). Going back later in the year to get flower shots, got some general scenery/habitat pics. For B.Brownii one area is accessable via 12 hour walk the other via 6-8 hour walk so I didnt get into either. The snottygobble I'd need an area as the ranger there indicated that there was no longer any known plants on Bluff Knoll(hope its only to discourage visitors) Gnan garra 11:24, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Broome spammer

I think you'll need to do more than a revert at one there :) Satu Suro

Thank You

Hey, thanks for telling him to get off me case. Im still confused as to why he removed the PSA and WA JSHAA templates from the article :S oh well, thanks alot for your mediation on the issue. Once again, many thanks SM BarnZy 13:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

JSHAA edits

Thanks for the comment Hesperian. I was already there two talk page edits ago, but having worked in customer service and the public service for as long as I have it's occasionally fun to let people proverbially hang themselves. thewinchester 13:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Desktop

Better? —Moondyne 01:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's exactly right. —Moondyne 01:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh. Me worry? Nup. —Moondyne 01:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and email. Orderinchaos78 03:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good :) Orderinchaos78 03:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Email. —Moondyne 05:41, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for doing that. —Moondyne 06:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Die Back image

Hi Hesp this image I took in the stirling ranges of a valley infected/infested with dieback your thoughts as to whether it can be used in any articles would be appreciated. Thanks Gnan garra 05:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OIC

OIC has yet to accept the nomination notifying may be a tad early Gnan garra 06:42, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you weren't thinking

You said Bigger than some silly imploding hospital, for example; probably almost on a par with your 2003 bushfires. A person was killed when the hospital imploded - she wouldn't have been there if the Chief Minister has not turned it into a spectacle against advice - ~~we don't as far as I know have an article on the imploding hospital~~ - found it. 4 people died in the bushfires and 500 homes were totally lost - many more were damaged. I really don't think it is comparable to a discussion as to whom had dinner with whom 2 years ago, even if that dinner date has potential to damage careers because one of the guests is corrupt and served time for fraud. Nobody has lost their life over it or perhaps I have missed something. Perhaps I need a wikibreak (and a lifebreak) - but I did find your comment offensive - I lived through both those events. Although I did not join the hospital party, I thought it was an incredibly foolish idea but there were ~~tens of thosands of~~ one hundred thousand spectators. I did however happen to be driving over Commonwealth Avenue bridge at the time - that more people were not killed was a miracle - building demolitions and implosions are normally conducted differently - it should have been a very big scandal.--Golden Wattle ^talk 09:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your note. --Golden Wattle ^talk 21:06, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TFA

You should have left it, that would really have got people talking about our efforts look what happened because there has been a few Australian FA on main page. Talk:Main Page/Archive 93#Did you know... 3.28% (or 1 in 30) of Today's Featured Articles are about AUSTRALIA? :) Gnan garra 00:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delltones

They had a song, come a little bit closer - and they had the amazing bass singer.... I think you should look a little closer at the tag- and the qualifying country within it at wittenoom. Sorry to be a nuisance... Satu Suro 02:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Didnt mean to be a smart arse! just saw the country thingo when you put it in Satu Suro 02:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Point Taken

Msg to Hesp and Moondyne: You guys are prob right - 3 arguments in 4 months isnt crash hot. I have taken your advice on board about the 3 things Moondyne. Im going to stop being so passionate, i think thats where i get into trouble? Thanks for the notification SM BarnZy 07:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel's RfA

I didn't nominate DanielT5 because Moondyne did, but I don't think I really understood the criteria well enough to nominate him. I don't mean to goof around - infact, I don't think I ever have - just made a few mistakes verging off the road of unintentional. Aurora north (WikiDesk) 10:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When do you think I'll be ready to contribute to the Wikipedia: namespace? Aurora north (WikiDesk) 10:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I replied to you and others on my talk page btw :) DanielT5 12:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Guide to the Wiki Template

Hello Hesperian - you redirected my template to User:Auroranorth/Guide to the Wiki. How do I use it as a {{}} template? Thanks, Aurora north (WikiDesk) 12:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And WP:GTTW. Aurora north (WikiDesk) 12:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.