User talk:JeffBillman/archive9

Small world

Pardon the personal question, but would you be the same Jeff Billman I worked with at BGSU's UCS department thirteen years ago, then recently re-connected with via LinkedIn? Kralizec! (talk) 01:07, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh, I guess the song was right about it being a small world after all. I think this makes you the first (only) Wikipedian I have ever met in person! Kralizec! (talk) 01:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

WWSB/QAM

I have reason to believe that the reason that some in the area may receive WWSB on 7.1 is because of a QAM tuner....it's basically something a cable company has that allows people to receive HD channels without subscribing to digital cable. The station publicizes their DT channel as 40.1 so I don't see why "7.1" is listed. --69.247.80.55 (talk) 18:54, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Taylor Hicks Under the Radar.png)

Thanks for uploading File:Taylor Hicks Under the Radar.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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KSU

Would you see the comment I left at the NRHP in Portage County talk page? After you read that, would you see if you could find a picture for it? I know virtually nothing of Kent State (other than the interstates, I've almost never been to Portage County), so I don't know what part of campus this is. Nyttend (talk) 01:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Crystal Lake Stock Farm

Thanks for moving this location — it would be easier if listings in states with minor civil divisions were required to give the minor civil division if it weren't in a city or borough! Nyttend (talk) 01:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Johnson Farm

You're welcome! I live close enough and it was a nice day, so why not. I've been on the tour like a million times, so one more time didn't hurt!

I left a comment on the Talk: Mantua, Ohio talk page. Basically, "Mantua" meant Mantua Township until the late 19th century/early 20th century when the village of Mantua dropped "Station" from its name. I have not been able to find when exactly that happened, but as recently as 1885 it was still known as Mantua Station. It is unlikely much of anything was there where the village is now at the time the Snows lived there. --JonRidinger (talk) 02:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Snow House

You know, you don't have to be the property owner or a professional historian to submit a nomination...Nyttend (talk) 02:48, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:WHIO-TV logo.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:WHIO-TV logo.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Thanks

Thanks for the source on the Theodore Roosevelt High School (Kent, Ohio) page. I was just getting one and you beat me to it. This other editor has been a real pain about little things and this is the only page he's ever edited, so a lot of his edits show lack of understanding of policy. If you can chime in with any insights or advice for him and/or me, it would be much appreciated! --JonRidinger (talk) 01:25, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, my reasons are more for aesthetics and easier reading. I mean, as I have said to both editors that got into this (this and other related articles are the only ones they've edited) is why would the district go to the trouble of getting the domain if they really wanted people to still use the state-issued one? On top of that, it was also a change that wasn't needed, which is why I reverted it (along with other changes) in the first place. As for the school colors, there are sources that list just red and white as the colors and others that list black as a third color. To me, all you need is a picture of ANY Roosevelt uniform, which contains red, white, and black. Many of the team's road uniforms are black, but all uniforms have at least black trim and the football team's pants are black for both the home and away uniforms. I remember an article in the Colonel (Roosevelt magazine) that speculated black started being added as a third color in the 1980s because it was originally just red and white. I also remember Robinson Memorial Hospital sponsoring pom-poms for both Kent and Ravenna. Kent's were red and black and Ravenna's were blue and white (their third color is red). --JonRidinger (talk) 01:43, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

United Church of God

Hi Jeff - didn't realize that I could revert all the edits in one go. So my apologies for the multiple undos in a row. Multiple reverts were in undoing multiple deletions by ScottAshley. Scott Ashley is a member of United Church of God's "Council of Elders". They have a vested interested in covering up the Church's history and origins in the Worlwide Church of God / Herbert Armstrong. Waitingwatch (talk) 14:47, 5 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waitingwatch (talk • contribs)

KSU Ice Hockey

Hey Jeff I found a small source on the demise of the Kent State varsity ice hockey team. It comes from the book Kent State University Athletics by Cara Gilgenbach and Theresa Walton, published in 2008. It is only a brief mention, but here is what it says on page 105: "Men's gymnastics and ice hockey were eliminated in 1994, following the university's Intercollegiate Athletic Committee's extensive evaluation of the 18 intercollegiate sports programs in place at the time." The next sentence mentions "economic pressures shared with other mid-major programs." A caption on page 94 underneath a picture of the ice hockey team reads: "...it was eliminated in 1994 as part of the university's effort to contain costs associated with intercollegiate athletics." If I find any other information I will let you know! --JonRidinger (talk) 03:42, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Please see "Am I a Dominionist?" on my home page

Hi JeffBillman,

Please read my home page section, Am I a Dominionist?. I am interested in what you think.

--Kevinkor2 (talk) 14:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Kevin. While normally I try to reply on both this talk page and that of my commenter, in this case I think I'll take up the discussion solely on your talk page. You raise some interesting points, and while they're not directly related to Wikipedia I think they're worthwhile to discuss nonetheless. See you on your talk page soon. -- JeffBillman (talk) 16:09, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Brent A. Webb

Yeah, it was deleted yesterday after I nominated it because the author blanked the page soon after I put the notice on his talk page. Because of it being a speedy deletion, when it showed up again today we couldn't speedy delete it. I have seen him mentioned in the Record-Courier, but as I told the author, that is more because he's local more than being notable. And the mention (it was just the other day) was very brief. There are a few names on the Ravenna High School (Ohio) alumni list that are suspect to me in terms of notability. Added by well-meaning people, but am not sure they are notable. The fact I went to Roosevelt and am pushing for their removal probably doesn't look too good either! Thanks for taking care of the nomination! --JonRidinger (talk) 22:58, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Notable Windhamites

Windham High School, also location of the offices of the Windham Exempted Village School District

Windham was produced and served as home to multiple notable individuals in diverse fields. Politician Laurin D. Woodworth was born in Windham and represented Ohio's 17th district in the United States Congress from 1873 until 1877. Windham is also the birthplace of Thomson Jay Hudson, known for his three laws of psychic phenomena. Writer Angela Johnson was raised in Windham and stated her inspiration to become an author came as a student in the Windham Exempted Village School District. Current Ball State Cardinals head football coach Stan Parrish lived in Windham from 1969-1974 at the beginning of his coaching career and served as head coach at Windham High School from 1972 until 1974 after serving as an assistant

This is what I put together...wanted to let you see it and comment before publishing it. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:28, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks great! Thanks, too, for keeping the demonym! -- JeffBillman (talk) 03:46, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey remember Brent A Webb?

Hey Jeff...remember the Brent A. Webb article? No, it hasn't been re-created again, but I got a particularly angry and mean-spirited message on Facebook from Mr. Webb himself today (yeah he searched for me on AOL or Google, read my blog, and found me on Facebook). Turns out the author, User:Channing2003, is the manager of Mr. Webb and blamed >me< for getting the article deleted twice. He's also ticked since apparently the Raven Hall of Fame page hasn't been updated and Mr. Webb was inducted this year (not that it wouldn't made a difference). If you'd like to read what he said, just google my user name and find my blog (it'll come up pretty quick). I posted some thoughts about it just a little while ago including his message to me and my response back. --JonRidinger (talk) 21:27, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, it appears the Brent Webb thing won't go away too quickly as I just undid an edit at the Ravenna High School (Ohio) article that re-added him. This is becoming somewhat comical. Also, in an unrelated topic, I noticed an interesting discussion concerning lists vs. prose for school alumni lists at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Schools#Bulleted lists. While it isn't from the Cities Wikiproject, I thought some good points were made that could apply to a notable natives section as well. --JonRidinger (talk) 00:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Yep, same person tried adding him back once again after you undid the edit. Next time, I consider it vandalism. -- JeffBillman (talk) 01:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, no sooner did I post that and it and the article got protection. Thank goodness for good admins! --JonRidinger (talk) 02:33, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I do too, but he's re-added it after 2 removals by myself and 2 more removals by an admin and yourself and is now trying to quote Wikipedia policy to me on vandalism. I let two admins know about the situation. I won't be surprised if the page gets a protection and/or that anonymous address gets blocked. --JonRidinger (talk) 02:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Boardman Township

Sorry for the confusion; you're correct in assessing what I was thinking. I need to get going now, so no time to explain my reasoning; if I don't get back to you by late today, please remind me. Nyttend (talk) 14:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Finally back — my church worships later in the day than most churches, and we had guests that stayed through the evening. With a few exceptions (generally those that have been almost completely annexed, such as Washington Township, Lucas County, Ohio or Columbia Township, Hamilton County, Ohio) I formulated these bits according to the area originally in the township — therefore this section of this article was written to deal with a specific square piece of land, 25 mi² in area. Let me define my meanings: in the rest of this comment, I'm going to speak of "original boundaries" as being the boundaries of the township after all changes to its boundaries in relation to other townships, but not including changes due to municipal status — for example, the "original boundaries" of Hiram, Portage would be a square, although it's not now, and the "original boundaries" of McArthur Township, Logan County, Ohio would be identical to its current boundaries, even though the township once included Richland Township to the north. Anyway...if we assume that there are sources for the original boundaries of the township, I think that using these boundaries is the best idea for listings the township's neighbors and communities, since the original boundaries can't change. There's a map that at least was online that shows exactly what I mean by "original boundaries" If I could find a link for it, I could use a specific map to substantiate all such boundaries: in April of 2008, I downloaded a map of Ohio by townships (using "original boundaries") that was linked from some Wikipedia article; it's produced by ODNR, and I'm sure that it would be reliable enough to be a RS. The map comes in PDF and is about 114 KB. Does this mean anything to you? Have you ever seen such a file? I'd really like to find the URL for this file; I still have it, and I've used it to make a map of Ohio by townships (including one for all the townships I've visited :-) but obviously a file only on my computer isn't a reliable source. Nyttend (talk) 00:46, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Ah, yes! I've seen the file. In fact, I think we had it linked once upon a time to one of the Logan County articles. In any case, I think sources are rather plentiful for the original boundaries of townships in the Western Reserve. I think there's even another map somewhere online that shows the original boundaries... in fact, come to think of it, it's here on Wikipedia: File:Western Reserve Including the Fire Lands 1826.jpg So anyway, I think we can just say, "Several populated places are located within the original survey boundaries of Boardman Township" and leave it with the provided source for now. It still leaves open the question of current jurisdiction, but I don't care; if someone wants to pursue that matter, let them. -- JeffBillman (talk) 01:07, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Munroe Falls, Ohio and Stow, Ohio

Hey Jeff when you get a chance, please check out the discussions going on mostly at the Munroe Falls, Ohio article, but also involves the Stow, Ohio article. You may want to check each article's edit history as well. Any fresh opinions you could offer there would be much appreciated! --JonRidinger (talk) 00:29, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, seems you already are there! How about that?!? --JonRidinger (talk) 00:30, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

P.S. St. Patrick School is in Kent :) --JonRidinger (talk) 00:47, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

D'oh! So what's that Catholic school on Main Street in Ravenna I pass every day on my way to work? ;-) -- JeffBillman (talk) 00:53, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

It's probably Immaculate Conception which did have a school at one time. --JonRidinger (talk) 00:57, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Hannity

I'll try to help by providing opinions. I don't expect to be able to do much with socks or otherwise use admin tools — unless there's something specific that you mean, and if so, I don't understand what you ask me to do with said tools. Tell me more and I'll see what I can do to help there, too. Nyttend (talk) 01:45, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Kevin Coughlin

Jeff, I would appreciate immediate removal of James Renner's libelous comments from the wiki page for Kevin Coughlin. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjcohio (talk • contribs) 17:24, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

• Wow, Jeff. As I figured, you are a biased editor, as this direct message from Coughlin himself demonstrates. I have recommended you be blocked from further revisions. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Request Block of JeffBillman —Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesRenner (talk • contribs) 23:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Direct message from Coughlin? Where? If you're referring to User:Kjcohio, it could be anybody. It could be me... or even you. Things that make you go hmmm... -- JeffBillman (talk) 23:39, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't use vandalism reversion tools to revert edits that are not vandalism. You can see for yourself in this instance exactly the sort of bad feeling that that instils, and escalation of conflict that ensues. Tempers wouldn't be as high here if you hadn't spent 2 hours persistently calling one editor a vandal in your edit summaries. Don't do it! Uncle G (talk) 23:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

• When an editor games the system to pursue a clear conflict of interest, guess what? That's vandalism. I won't apologize for reverting it, nor for calling it what it is. -- JeffBillman (talk) 23:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
  • No, it is not. I recommend that you read Wikipedia:Vandalism and find out what actually constitutes vandalism and what does not. Uncle G (talk) 23:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
    • "Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia." The user in question did just that, adding content repeatedly even after I had reported it to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Kevin Coughlin. Please also note the policy on biographies of living persons, which states: "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." Are you going to tell me that I should ignore this policy?? -- JeffBillman (talk) 00:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
      • Stop being a Wikilawyer and stop constructing straw men. You know exactly what I'm telling you. It is clear and unambiguous, and it is to not use vandalism reversion tools to revert edits that are not vandalism. You know how to revert without using vandalism tools. That's plain from the edit history. Don't use automated editing tools that call editors vandals when they are not. Once again: Don't do it!

        And while we're at it, please learn how to have a conversation in just one place, instead of splitting things off your talk page into multiple places. Uncle G (talk) 00:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

        • First of all, my apologies. I misunderstood your instruction at the top of your page, and believed that you-- like me-- generally prefer to have discussions on both pages, so to avoid having to go back and forth to read a discussion. I missed where you said write, and that certainly changes things! I ask for your pardon on that point.

          Now, sir, I ask you to assume good faith, or at least assume the presence of a belly button. You directed me to the page on vandalism. I am simply pointing out how, in my interpretation of that policy to which you referred me, I believe that this constitutes vandalism. An editor cannot post poorly sourced claims about a living person and persist in adding it after WP:BLP concerns have been raised. That's wrong, Uncle G. It's also vandalism. Now, I ask you again: Will you have me ignore that policy? -- JeffBillman (talk) 00:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

          • You're still constructing the same straw men. Stop. There is a difference between what was being done in this case and vandalism. As promised, here is another pointer for you: Go and read Wikipedia:Rollback. And then go back and read Wikipedia:Vandalism again. You still aren't getting what vandalism is not, nor why you should not use vandalism rollback tools to revert edits that are not vandalism. And this despite the clear evidence, from the person whom you falsely labelled a vandal in your edit summaries taking you to WP:AN/I, of exactly what results time after time from doing so. If you are ever going to request rollbacker permissions, note, you are going to have to learn not to mis-use rollback tools in this way. Showing such judgement is a very important part of qualifying for use of such tools. Uncle G (talk) 00:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
            • Uncle G, I've been an editor on Wikipedia long enough to pursue rollback permissions if I so desired. I have not done so. You should not use your position as an admin to denigrate my decision, if that is your intent; not all of us choose that path. I've explained my reasons why I believe this is vandalism, and I stand by them. I also stand by my editing record against this obvious attempt at retaliation in WP:AN/I. -- JeffBillman (talk) 01:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

September 2009

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Kevin Coughlin. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. Please stop the disruption, otherwise you may be blocked from editing. Alan (talk) 23:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)